Search found 124 matches

by dikaiopolis
Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:00 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens
Replies: 69
Views: 2928

Re: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens

ἀλλ’ εἰ σπανίζεις ἀργυρίου, τὸν γοῦν τόκον (1285) ἀπόδοτε. The confusion (also in the mss) stems from the switch in number between σπανίζεις and απόδοτε. What does “does it signify?” signify? τί δῆτα=what then?, what do you think about this, then? On the IA passage: I couldn’t quite tell where it fi...
by dikaiopolis
Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:57 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens
Replies: 69
Views: 2928

Re: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens

On the first line, ἐσεῖδον is best translated as present. This is the so-called “dramatic” or “tragic” aorist, restricted to the 1st person. “I’m so glad to see you after such a long time!” Cf. line 655. παρ’ ἐμοὶ γενοῦ νῦν: παρ’ ἐμοὶ refers more to mental or emotional closeness than “by my side.” “...
by dikaiopolis
Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:04 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Crito 49a
Replies: 13
Views: 633

Re: Crito 49a

I read this a little differently. I took αὐτοὺς in καὶ αὐτοὺς βλαπτομένους to mean "them", referring back to οὓς, our allies. I think οὓς is the object of both οὐ παραδοτέα and τιμωρητέα (though not of διακριτέα, which is wholly impersonal, I think), and I take καὶ αὐτοὺς βλαπτομένους as within the...
by dikaiopolis
Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:15 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Crito 49a
Replies: 13
Views: 633

Re: Crito 49a

I was thinking of the next phrase, οὐδὲ δίκαις καὶ λόγοις διακριτέα μὴ λόγῳ καὶ αὐτοὺς βλαπτομένους, taking αὐτοὺς βλαπτομένους (implied ημας) as the acc. agent.

Yes, the neut pl -τεα is good Thucydidean style.
by dikaiopolis
Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:38 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Crito 49a
Replies: 13
Views: 633

Re: Crito 49a

Hylander has it right. Here's another example from Thucydides, with the neut pl instead of sing: ἄλλοις μὲν γὰρ χρήματά ἐστι πολλὰ καὶ νῆες καὶ ἵπποι, ἡμῖν δὲ ξύμμαχοι ἀγαθοί, οὓς οὐ παραδοτέα τοῖς Ἀθηναίοις ἐστίν, οὐδὲ δίκαις καὶ λόγοις διακριτέα μὴ λόγῳ καὶ αὐτοὺς βλαπτομένους, ἀλλὰ τιμωρητέα ἐν τ...
by dikaiopolis
Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:45 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens
Replies: 69
Views: 2928

Re: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens

From what I read in the Introduction, these passages were intended to broaden the student's vocabulary and acquaint him with a broader range of material from the Greek classics than was possible by reading whole works, thus enabling the student to succeed at a pass examination for a Bachelor's Degr...
by dikaiopolis
Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:20 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Your wife's not home, Sch. Z.373c (bT) ex.
Replies: 6
Views: 498

Re: Your wife's not home, Sch. Z.373c (bT) ex.

Off topic, but have you seen Francesca Schironi's brand new book on Aristarchus, The Best of the Grammarians? I highly recommend it.
by dikaiopolis
Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:50 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Your wife's not home, Sch. Z.373c (bT) ex.
Replies: 6
Views: 498

Re: Your wife's not home, Sch. Z.373c (bT) ex.

I’m glad we all agree on the last part of the scholion. I agree that the notes on Z.407 and 431 confirm our reading. This is not the only infelicity I’ve found in Schmidt’s “Portrait of an Unknown Scholiast.” The mixed characterization of Hector in the scholia is especially pronounced in this sectio...
by dikaiopolis
Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:59 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: <noun1> καὶ <noun2> ἢ <noun3> in Eph.5:3
Replies: 8
Views: 626

Re: <noun1> καὶ <noun2> ἢ <noun3> in Eph.5:3

mwh wrote:blame Paul
better "Paul" than Paul
by dikaiopolis
Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:56 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Your wife's not home, Sch. Z.373c (bT) ex.
Replies: 6
Views: 498

Your wife's not home, Sch. Z.373c (bT) ex.

Hellenists, I wonder if I could get your take on the following bT-scholion. Hector has come home, but doesn’t find Andromache: Ὣς ἄρα φωνήσας ἀπέβη κορυθαίολος Ἕκτωρ· αἶψα δ᾽ ἔπειθ᾽ ἵκανε δόμους εὖ ναιετάοντας, οὐδ᾽ εὗρ᾽ Ἀνδρομάχην λευκώλενον ἐν μεγάροισιν, ἀλλ᾽ ἥ γε ξὺν παιδὶ καὶ ἀμφιπόλῳ ἐϋπέπλῳ π...
by dikaiopolis
Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:33 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens
Replies: 69
Views: 2928

Re: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens

Joel, I think you’re doing quite well with these in general. The passages are fun. As for receiving comments on Textkit, would it make sense for you to produce two versions, your unseen translation like you’ve done (no resources) plus a self-corrected version (after consulting a lexicon, grammars, m...
by dikaiopolis
Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:15 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens
Replies: 69
Views: 2928

Re: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens

Joel, this is good. A few notes to add to Michael’s: ἔστησ’: 1st person here πρευμενὴς δ’ ἡμῖν γενοῦ λῦσαί τε πρύμνας καὶ χαλινωτήρια νεῶν δὸς ἡμῖν †πρευμενοῦς† τ’ ἀπ’ Ἰλίου (540) νόστου τυχόντας πάντας ἐς πάτραν μολεῖν.: Your syntax is a little off here. Should we take λῦσαι as an inf. or impv.? An...
by dikaiopolis
Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:47 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Oxford Book of Greek Verse 97, Tyrtaeus
Replies: 14
Views: 1829

Re: Oxford Book of Greek Verse 97, Tyrtaeus

Joel: your translations are definitely on the right track. A few notes (sorry I don’t have time for more detail): I found the beginning of OBGV 97 on TLG: The text you copied from the TLG is in fact several different fragments from West’s ed. Fr. 2 (from an Oxy. papyrus) and 4 likely come from the s...
by dikaiopolis
Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:23 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Oxford Book of Greek Verse 97, Tyrtaeus
Replies: 14
Views: 1829

Re: Oxford Book of Greek Verse 97, Tyrtaeus

Hylander wrote:Mimnermus' elegy fragments would also be good to check out, as an antidote to Tyrtaeus and Callinus.
What is life, what is joy without golden Mimnermus?
by dikaiopolis
Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:36 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Oxford Book of Greek Verse 97, Tyrtaeus
Replies: 14
Views: 1829

Re: Oxford Book of Greek Verse 97, Tyrtaeus

Another good one you might want to check out is the fr. of Callinus (μέχρις τεῦ κατάκεισθε; it's the only substantial fr.), very similar to Tyrtaeus but better. Speaking of Campbell, have you seen the new CGLC by Felix Budelmann, Greek Lyric: A Selection? It should be a good substitute for Campbell'...
by dikaiopolis
Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:11 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Asclepiades v.169
Replies: 45
Views: 2454

Re: Asclepiades v.169

There's a pleasant Latin translation by H.H. Huxley, quoted in Jerry Clack's annotated edition of Asclepiades and Leonidas:

Dulce nives bibere est sitienti aestate; foveri
Post hiemem Zephyro, navita, dulce tibi.
Dulcius at cum palla duos legit unica amantes,
Et Veneri reddunt femina virque decus.
by dikaiopolis
Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:02 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Asclepiades v.169
Replies: 45
Views: 2454

Re: Asclepiades v.169

It's not always long; there are some exceptions, esp. in Hom. (And it's debated whether it should ever be short in tragedy, which has led to the occasional emendation)
by dikaiopolis
Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:19 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Asclepiades v.169
Replies: 45
Views: 2454

Re: Asclepiades v.169

RandyGibbons wrote: (2) To get a metrical rendering, I am reading the first foot of the third line out loud as ἥδ’ ὁπό. Any comments, anyone, on the meter here? Is this amount of elision common to the genre or the period?
The ῑ in ἥδιον is long here, so the line starts — —/— u u/
by dikaiopolis
Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:11 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Εὐρώταν Greek Anthology 5.60
Replies: 21
Views: 1586

Re: Εὐρώταν Greek Anthology 5.60

Yes, you're right on the second (irrelevant) part of the Suda entry—I was just careless. They are connected only because of the use of Eurotas ἐν Ἐπιγράμμασι.
by dikaiopolis
Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:55 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Εὐρώταν Greek Anthology 5.60
Replies: 21
Views: 1586

Re: Εὐρώταν Greek Anthology 5.60

The interpretation found in the Suda is notably odd (Page no doubt glosses over it because it’s obviously wrong). The Eurotas is taken as male genitals, probably from its description as ὑπεροιδαίνοντα. So the scene is transformed into a rape, like Leda by the banks of the Eurotas: Εὐρώταν· ἐν Ἐπιγρά...
by dikaiopolis
Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:44 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: internal accusative/object
Replies: 34
Views: 1973

Re: internal accusative/object

Wow… this is really running in circles. I repeat what I said at the beginning of my post: “I think you’re getting hung up on whether you should translate the internal object into English with an adverb.” If you want to understand this grammatical construction, I suggest focusing on the Greek grammar...
by dikaiopolis
Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:33 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: internal accusative/object
Replies: 34
Views: 1973

Re: internal accusative/object

Tugodum, I think you’re getting hung up on whether you should translate the internal object into English with an adverb. That’s a separate issue. And I’m afraid the description Barry posted isn’t helping you on this point. You might find Mastronarde’s fuller description helpful (or look in just abou...
by dikaiopolis
Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:25 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: bT sch. on E.166
Replies: 7
Views: 1617

Re: bT sch. on E.166

I know there’s at least one translation project for the scholia vetera according to Erbse’s ed. I’d be happy to have it of course, but I have questions about its utility at this stage of research on ancient Homeric scholarship. I’ve seen many misleading translations of scholia (I’ve shared a few on ...
by dikaiopolis
Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:01 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: bT sch. on E.166
Replies: 7
Views: 1617

Re: bT sch. on E.166

MWH: I said it’s a little odd because a reader might reasonably see the real variation in this scene as stemming from the fact that now (after all his προθυμία in Δ and E) Pandarus is disheartened. But that’s not what this (characteristically elliptical) scholion is talking about. Sure, “analysis” i...
by dikaiopolis
Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:37 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: bT sch. on E.166
Replies: 7
Views: 1617

Re: bT sch. on E.166

I think we are taking the first part (τὸ ὁμοειδές τε ἐκκλίνει) in the same way: Homer avoids uniformity/monotony (in general and specifically with Pandarus). This accords with the frequent praise for Homer’s use of variation/ποικιλία in bT. I’ve run into ἐκκλίνω in the scholia before, but never real...
by dikaiopolis
Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:12 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: bT sch. on E.166
Replies: 7
Views: 1617

bT sch. on E.166

Dear Homerists: I have a somewhat trifling question on another Iliadic scholion. As Diomedes works havoc among the Trojan ranks during his aristeia, Aeneas goes to find Pandarus (E.166ff.), now rather gloomy (esp. E.212-16) after realizing that he’s failed at the bow yet again. He initially responds...
by dikaiopolis
Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:20 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Why is ἄρκτος always feminine?
Replies: 14
Views: 1520

Re: Why is ἄρκτος always feminine?

Or, far more often, misogynistic. Many of these ancient grammatical notes on bears, camels, etc. probably derive in one way or another from Aristotelian traditions. In the Historia animalium, you find the idea that female bears and leopards/panthers are stronger than the males: Ἀθυμότερα δὲ τὰ θήλεα...
by dikaiopolis
Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:30 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Why is ἄρκτος always feminine?
Replies: 14
Views: 1520

Re: Why is ἄρκτος always feminine?

I ran across this issue in a scholion to Dionysius Thrax not long ago. I'll add it here in case you're interested in how the ancient grammarians tried to cope. From the section περὶ ὀνόματος: Γένη μὲν οὖν εἰϲι τρία· ἀρϲενικόν, θηλυκόν, οὐδέτερον. ἔνιοι δὲ προϲτιθέαϲι τούτοιϲ ἄλλα δύο, κοινόν τε καὶ ...
by dikaiopolis
Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:00 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Oratorical gesture?
Replies: 6
Views: 1262

Re: Oratorical gesture?

I agree, the phrase definitely occurs in Gk lit. outside Jewish or Christian texts and, by itself, is unremarkable. The point is that it occurs with an unusually high frequency in the LXX (as the regular translation of שלח יד, as you note) and was subsequently echoed in Jewish-Greek lit., as in the ...
by dikaiopolis
Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:22 am
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Oratorical gesture?
Replies: 6
Views: 1262

Re: Oratorical gesture?

Because it's common in the LXX (100+ times), but not so much in other texts. I think especially of passages like the first part of LXX Exodus, the source of this pleasant fragment of Ezekiel the Tragedian: <Μ.> ἰδοὺ βέβληται· δέσποθ’, ἵλεως γενοῦ· ὡς φοβερός, ὡς πέλωρος· οἴκτειρον σύ με· πέφρικ’ ἰδώ...
by dikaiopolis
Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:54 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Oratorical gesture?
Replies: 6
Views: 1262

Re: Oratorical gesture?

How about Thelyphron's gesture in Apuleius? ac sic aggeratis in cumulum stragulis et effultus in cubitum suberectusque in torum porrigit dexteram, et ad instar oratorum conformat articulum duobusque infimis conclusis digitis ceteros eminus porrigens et infesto pollice subrigens infit Thelyphron (Met...
by dikaiopolis
Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:12 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Earliest text of the Odyssey?
Replies: 17
Views: 2085

Re: Earliest text of the Odyssey?

There's an informative piece on this by Peter Gainsford out today:

http://kiwihellenist.blogspot.com/2018/ ... yssey.html
by dikaiopolis
Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:23 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Deipnosophistae 1.2
Replies: 9
Views: 1145

Re: Deipnosophistae 1.2

Does κεῖται here mean "attested in earlier literature?" in the sense of simple appearance? Certainly Ulpianus asks such questions later, Οὐλπιανὸς ἔφη ειʼ κεῖται παρά τινι τὸ πρόπομα οὕτω καλούμενον ὡς νῦν ἡμεῖς φαμεν... But even there he appears to be talking about the meaning of the word rather t...
by dikaiopolis
Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:13 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Deipnosophistae 1.2
Replies: 9
Views: 1145

Re: Deipnosophistae 1.2

Yes, μήτρα refers to the pig's uterus. It comes back in one of the more memorable scenes, the row between Keitoukeitos and Cynulcus in Book 3, stuffed with silly puns: ΜΗΤΡΑ ἑξῆς ἐπεισηνέχθη, μητρόπολίς τις ὡς ἀληθῶς οὖσα καὶ μήτηρ τῶν Ἱπποκράτους υἱῶν, οὓς εἰς ὑωδίαν κωμῳδουμένους οἶδα. εἰς ἣν ἀποβ...
by dikaiopolis
Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:26 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Deipnosophistae 1.2
Replies: 9
Views: 1145

Re: Deipnosophistae 1.2

Κειτούκειτος is something like "Dr. attested or not attested." Athenaeus uses his pretentiousness to satirize, deliciously, the sophistry of certain overzealous Atticists, especially lexicographers. Compare, for instance, this passage from Lucian's ΡΗΤΟΡΩΝ ΔΙΔΑΣΚΑΛΟΣ (with a different sort of gastro...
by dikaiopolis
Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:14 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Which work does the abbreviation Tim.Pers. stand for?
Replies: 4
Views: 997

Re: Which work does the abbreviation Tim.Pers. stand for?

If you have any questions about abbreviations in the LSJ, they are explained here on the TLG version:

http://stephanus.tlg.uci.edu/lsj/05-gen ... tions.html
http://stephanus.tlg.uci.edu/lsj/01-aut ... works.html

LeVen's book is especially good.
by dikaiopolis
Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:51 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plat, Symp. 190 c5
Replies: 10
Views: 1973

Re: Plat, Symp. 190 c5

A good example of this, referenced by Dover, is from Antiphon’s 2nd tetralogy. Sure the boy was hit with the javelin my son threw, but our case rests on the fact that the javelin didn’t go off course..  Εἰ μὲν γὰρ τὸ ἀκόντιον ἔξω τῶν ὅρων τῆς αὑτοῦ πορείας ἐπὶ τὸν παῖδα ἐξενεχθὲν ἔτρωσεν αὐτόν, οὐδε...
by dikaiopolis
Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:58 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plato, Apology 28 c1
Replies: 10
Views: 2255

Re: Plato, Apology 28 c1

Tugodum wrote: Per Dyer it is to be rendered "must have been" (he refers to the source am not familiar with: "SCG. 437, 442");
SCG probably refers to Gildersleeve's Syntax of Classical Greek
by dikaiopolis
Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:12 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Old Testament Greek
Replies: 8
Views: 1673

Re: Old Testament Greek

Texts like Wisdom or 4 Macc. were composed in Greek. Most of the texts in the LXX were translated from Hebrew (or Aramaic). The bizarre style of a book like LXX Genesis, resulting from it’s very close rendition of the Hebrew, subsequently had a huge influence on Jewish and early Christian literature...
by dikaiopolis
Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:57 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Old Testament Greek
Replies: 8
Views: 1673

Re: Old Testament Greek

Knowing Biblical Hebrew isn’t a prerequisite, but it’ll add a lot if you learn it at some point. You should just dive right in to the Greek. For pleasurable reads in the LXX, I suggest especially the Wisdom of Solomon, 2-4 Maccabees, and the prologue to Ben Sira. For understanding Hebrews, start wit...