Search found 2090 matches

by Qimmik
Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:13 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Soph OT 1183-1185
Replies: 5
Views: 1818

Re: Soph OT 1183-1185

#0 See LSJ ὅστις: II. referring to a definite object, prop. only when a general notion is implied, Πολυκράτεα . . , δι᾽ ὅντινα κακῶς ἤκουσε, not the man through whom, but one through whom . . , Hdt.3.120; τελευταῖόν σε προσβλέψαιμι νῦν, ὅστις πέφασμαι φύς τ᾽ ἀφ᾽ ὧν οὐ χρῆν may I see thee now for the...
by Qimmik
Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:13 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Help with subject/object in Mastronarde exercise
Replies: 2
Views: 1186

Re: Help with subject/object in Mastronarde exercise

I don't think you're going wrong--I think that in both cases your interpretations are possible. But in the first clause, it seems unlikely that the multitude would realize it didn't want to hear etc. rather than an individual would realize that the multitude no longer wanted to hear, so a 3rd sing. ...
by Qimmik
Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:20 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Difference between δεῖ and χρὴ
Replies: 17
Views: 4758

Re: Difference between δεῖ and χρὴ

"Why is it so valuable?"

It's out of print; three large volumes, one of text and two of commentary on about 1700 lines of Greek. Important out of print books are very expensive, but if it were in print, it probably wouldn't be sold for much less. It's a classic of classical scholarship.
by Qimmik
Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:40 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: need suggestion about Chamber murray's
Replies: 2
Views: 1081

Re: need suggestion about Chamber murray's

Are you more interested in classical Latin or in late/medieval Latin? How much are you willing to spend? If you really want a dictionary that will serve you for life, no matter how far you go in Latin, Lewis & Short's Latin Dictionary is the best (short of the Oxford Latin Dictionary). You can pick ...
by Qimmik
Wed Sep 30, 2015 7:17 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Tricky sentence from (adapted) Livy LLPSI Cap XLIV
Replies: 5
Views: 1675

Re: Tricky sentence from (adapted) Livy LLPSI Cap XLIV

Allen & Greenough sec. 317c: c. When a verb belongs to two or more subjects separately, it often agrees with one and is understood with the others:— 1. “ intercēdit M. Antōnius Q. Cassius tribūnī plēbis ” (B. C. 1.2) , Mark Antony and Quintus Cassius, tribunes of the people, interpose. 2. “hōc mihi ...
by Qimmik
Wed Sep 30, 2015 12:47 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Horace, Odes I, no. 23, grammar query
Replies: 4
Views: 1674

Re: Horace, Odes I, no. 23, grammar query

You might want to equip yourself with the Cambridge Greek and Latin Classics edition with commentary of H. Odes 1. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0521671019?keywords=horace%20odes%201&qid=1443616960&ref_=sr_1_8&sr=8-8 This will provide some help with the grammar, but more importantly a lot of illu...
by Qimmik
Wed Sep 30, 2015 1:57 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Horace, Odes I, no. 23, grammar query
Replies: 4
Views: 1674

Re: Horace, Odes I, no. 23, grammar query

You're basically right. tigris ut aspera Gaetulusve leo -- ut here is simply "like". You can supply a verb, maybe persequeretur or persequatur , but there's really no need to. What's confusing (but didn't seem to confuse you) is that ut follows tigris . frangere is an infinitive of purpose and compl...
by Qimmik
Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:31 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Mastronarde ch. 28
Replies: 3
Views: 1203

Re: Mastronarde ch. 28

You will be amazed at what Greek can do with participles and infinitives.
by Qimmik
Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:41 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Mastronarde ch. 28
Replies: 3
Views: 1203

Re: Mastronarde ch. 28

I don't think there's an analogous use of participles in Latin. This usage generally occurs in Greek with verbs of knowing, showing, perceiving finding, among others. (I took the list from Smyth.) You just have to learn which kinds of verbs take participles--and I'm not sure it's quite right to lump...
by Qimmik
Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:16 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Question of Quod - Medieval Latin
Replies: 6
Views: 1557

Re: Question of Quod - Medieval Latin

In #1, responsum est is probably perfect passive in an impersonal construction: "it was answered" or "someone answered." It's interesting that the verb vocarentur is subjunctive. In post-classical Latin, when quod became the marker for indirect speech, the indicative would have been used here.
by Qimmik
Sat Sep 19, 2015 3:06 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Mastronarde ch. 25
Replies: 4
Views: 1445

Re: Mastronarde ch. 25

The present and the aorist only have temporal significance in the indicative. In other moods, and in the infinitive and participles, the distinction between the two forms is purely aspectual. Here, I think, the aorist is unmarked; the present would be marked as continuous or conative, or something e...
by Qimmik
Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:04 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Cupid and the Bee -- Translation Check
Replies: 12
Views: 3987

Re: Cupid and the Bee -- Translation Check

There's very little in common between these two: Eros gets stung by a bee; tells his mother the bee is small but makes a big wound; his mother says, so do you. There's no overlap in the language except ερωσ, μελιττα/μελισσα, χειρ and function words. Even the mother is identified by different terms, ...
by Qimmik
Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:28 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Cupid and the Bee -- Translation Check
Replies: 12
Views: 3987

Re: Cupid and the Bee -- Translation Check

One seems to be a direct reworking of the other. I don't see many similarities between these except a silly commonplace idea. There were probably numerous other scraps of doggerel based on this idea floating around. A nasty bee once stung Eros the thief when he was stealing honeycomb from the hives...
by Qimmik
Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:20 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Cupid and the Bee -- Translation Check
Replies: 12
Views: 3987

Re: Cupid and the Bee -- Translation Check

Scribo, [Theocritus] 19 can't possibly be genuine Theocritus, can it? According to Gow, Wilamowitz thought it was about the same date as the Ps.-Anacreon poem, i.e., "late". What a cruel irony that these "poems" have survived when so much of Sappho has been lost. "ὄλωλα, μῆτερ," εἶπεν "ὄλωλα κἀποθνῄ...
by Qimmik
Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:50 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Vowel / Diphthong length
Replies: 9
Views: 3734

Re: Vowel / Diphthong length

"Something else seems to be going on." A lot of things are going on underneath the text of the Homeric poems, which didn't take final shape until the Hellenistic era but were the end-product of many layers of tranformations of traditional epic language. ἢ ὁδὸν ἐλθέμεναι ἢ ἀνδράσιν ἶφι μάχεσθαι; -- t...
by Qimmik
Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: perfect subjunctive, need review on grammar point
Replies: 4
Views: 1273

Re: perfect subjunctive, need review on grammar point

Do you have a print copy of A&G? They're much more user-friendly than the on-line version, and they can be purchased at reasonable prices either used in good condition or in paperback. The print edition is much easier to find and access what you're looking for in the index. Avoid print on demand and...
by Qimmik
Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:37 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: perfect subjunctive, need review on grammar point
Replies: 4
Views: 1273

Re: perfect subjunctive, need review on grammar point

This is a prohibition (negative command), which can be expressed by ne (or another negative word) + perfect subjunctive. Here the negative word is nullam . Allen & Greenough sec. 450; see note 4: 450. Prohibition is regularly expressed in classic prose (1) by nōlī with the Infinitive, (2) by cavē wi...
by Qimmik
Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:54 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Mastronarde ch. 22
Replies: 12
Views: 3571

Re: Mastronarde ch. 22

the aorist passive is a different tense altogether, therefore "apekteinato" . . . for "was killed" isn't possible anyway. Perhaps that's what you were getting at when you pointed out that it would be middle and not passive. Yes, the aorist passive is different from the aorist middle, and απεκτεινατ...
by Qimmik
Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:28 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Mastronarde ch. 22
Replies: 12
Views: 3571

Re: Mastronarde ch. 22

For quick answers I find this very useful. It also has an English-Ancient Greek section, and it's cheap: http://www.amazon.com/Pocket-Oxford-Classical-Greek-Dictionary/dp/0198605129/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1442003068&sr=8-1&keywords=morwood+greek+dictionary He also has a very succinct Greek grammar t...
by Qimmik
Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:12 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: class of defective verbs
Replies: 2
Views: 970

Re: class of defective verbs

Defective verbs differ from one another in the forms they're lacking. Not necessarily any patterns.
by Qimmik
Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:00 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Mastronarde ch. 22
Replies: 12
Views: 3571

Re: Mastronarde ch. 22

This is essential--it's what distinguished scholars use when they're too lazy to go to the big LSJ. (This is based on an earlier version of LSJ, but it's still very useful because it gives a large number of meanings, many idioms, citations to specific authors, and in many cases glosses on specific p...
by Qimmik
Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:28 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Mastronarde ch. 22
Replies: 12
Views: 3571

Re: Mastronarde ch. 22

cum duplice accusative -- with double accusative. Notes on things like complements are in Latin in LSJ.
by Qimmik
Fri Sep 11, 2015 4:21 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Mastronarde ch. 22
Replies: 12
Views: 3571

Re: Mastronarde ch. 22

ἀπεκτείνατο would be middle, not passive, but Bedwere is right: απεθανεν would be used. There is no aorist passive of -κτεινω. Probably "you" plural is more likely--the speaker is addressing an assembly, υφ' υμων.
by Qimmik
Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:47 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Horace, Odes, 1, 28: some difficult (for me) expressions
Replies: 2
Views: 1277

Re: Horace, Odes, 1, 28: some difficult (for me) expressions

debita iura would be legal or other obligations, or simply justice, owed to the deceased. See Lewis & Short IIB and C: http://perseus.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philologic/getobject.pl?c.8:4133.lewisandshort vicesque superbae -- You're right about this. Think of the "vicissitudes" of fate. superbae seems...
by Qimmik
Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:35 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Oikonomikos 7. 6
Replies: 8
Views: 2641

Re: Oikonomikos 7. 6

It depends on what you think τά ἀμφὶ γαστέρα, "things about stomach," means. About the stomach, about food generally, or about proper eating habits? There's no context to elucidate this. Cooking? But would that be something both men and women should know about?
by Qimmik
Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:25 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Mastronarde ch. 20
Replies: 8
Views: 2556

Re: Mastronarde ch. 20

Apparently, suppletion was a pervasive feature of Proto-IE and of Sanskrit, too. In Russian, there are two aspects for most verbs: imperfective and perfective. In most cases there is an obvious relationship between the two aspects. However, in the case of the verb that corresponds etymologically to ...
by Qimmik
Sun Sep 06, 2015 3:38 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Mastronarde ch. 20
Replies: 8
Views: 2556

Re: Mastronarde ch. 20

is this just a somewhat complicated way of pointing out that the stem ἐλθ- is not found in the present system? Yes; the present/imperfect tenses are supplied by ἔρχομαι and the future by eimi or eleusomai. This is a suppletive verb--the various aspects for this verbal idea are supplied by unrelated...
by Qimmik
Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:45 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Soph. OT 1091— who is the subject of αὔξειν ?
Replies: 6
Views: 2101

Re: Soph. OT 1091— who is the subject of αὔξειν ?

οὐ τὸν Ὄλυμπον ἀπείρων, ὦ Κιθαιρών, οὐκ ἔσῃ τὰν αὔριον πανσέληνον μὴ οὐ σέ γε καὶ πατριώταν Οἰδίπου 1090 καὶ τροφὸν καὶ ματέρ᾿ αὔξειν, Now I see how this fits together. οὐ τὸν Ὄλυμπον ἀπείρων, ὦ Κιθαιρών, οὐκ ἔσῃ "You will not be ignorant/unknowing, by Olympus, o Cithaeron" μὴ οὐ -- this is what Smy...
by Qimmik
Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:44 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Ecloga VI
Replies: 17
Views: 4486

Re: Ecloga VI

The "internal" accusative and the "accusative of the thing affected" are more common in
Greek than in Latin.
by Qimmik
Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:18 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Grammar help in Phaedon please.
Replies: 6
Views: 2017

Re: Grammar help in Phaedon please.

I noticed in the Loeb edition that the translator uses the word "to persevere" for the Greek "προαφίστασθαι". LSJ doesn't give that meaning--rather, the meanings it gives are "desist from" and similar expressions. But I suspect the Loeb translator is merely trying to unscramble the Greek negatives ...
by Qimmik
Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:34 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Grammar help in Phaedon please.
Replies: 6
Views: 2017

Re: Grammar help in Phaedon please.

τὸ μέντοι αὖ τὰ λεγόμενα περὶ αὐτῶν μὴ οὐχὶ παντὶ τρόπῳ ἐλέγχειν καὶ μὴ προαφίστασθαι πρὶν ἂν πανταχῇ σκοπῶν ἀπείπῃ τις, πάνυ μαλθακοῦ εἶναι ἀνδρός Leaving aside οὐχὶ for the moment, I think the way this needs to be read is to take the scope of the first μὴ as encompassing all of παντὶ τρόπῳ ἐλέγχει...
by Qimmik
Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:17 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Soph. OT 1091— who is the subject of αὔξειν ?
Replies: 6
Views: 2101

Re: Soph. OT 1091— who is the subject of αὔξειν ?

Update: I checked the new OCT and Sophoclea , by Lloyd-Jones and Wilson, which explains the readings adopted in the OCT, as well as Dawe's edition of OT in the Cambridge Greek & Latin Classics series. Apparently, Οἰδίπουν is a conjecture, which Dawe adopts but LLoyd-Jones and Wilson reject. They jus...
by Qimmik
Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:31 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Soph. OT 1091— who is the subject of αὔξειν ?
Replies: 6
Views: 2101

Re: Soph. OT 1091— who is the subject of αὔξειν ?

L-J's text is different from Jebb's: L-J has Οἰδίπου, while Jebb has Οἰδίπουν. That accounts for the difference in translation--in L-J's text genitive Οἰδίπου can't be the subject of αὔξειν, so the subject has to be πανσέληνον. Obviously, it's difficult to make sense of this passage, and something i...
by Qimmik
Mon Aug 31, 2015 11:55 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Si se audiant - Roma Aeterna XLV lines 41–42
Replies: 4
Views: 1589

Re: Si se audiant - Roma Aeterna XLV lines 41–42

A few additional points: It's difficult to imagine that this sentence would be a future "less vivid" condition in direct speech--it's nearly a command. "If you should hear me, you would all go straight home" doesn't seem right. "If you hear/are listening to me, you will go straight home" seems more ...
by Qimmik
Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:59 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Si se audiant - Roma Aeterna XLV lines 41–42
Replies: 4
Views: 1589

Re: Si se audiant - Roma Aeterna XLV lines 41–42

I don't think it's helpful to think of this as a "mixed" condition, although that is how some grammarians might analyze it. It's a combination of a present protasis, where there is no implication that the verb is contrafactual, and a future apodosis. In direct speech, the speaker would have said: Si...
by Qimmik
Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:14 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Ecloga VI
Replies: 17
Views: 4486

Re: Ecloga VI

Basically, you have this right. The acc. + inf. construction depends on fama . fama secuta est is active, not passive. The subject is fama and the direct object is quam , i.e., Scylla. Scyllam Nisi -- "Nisu' daughter Scylla." However, Nisus was the father of a different Scylla. Their story is told a...
by Qimmik
Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:28 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Ἡνιόχου
Replies: 5
Views: 1751

Re: Ἡνιόχου

κἄπειτ’ ἀπ’ ἐκείνης τῆς ϑυσίας διέφϑορεν αὐτὰς ξενίζουσ’ ἡμέραν ἐξ ἡμέρας ἀβουλία κατέχουσα πολὺν ἤδη χρόνον. γυναῖκε δ’ αὐτὴν δύο ταράττετόν τινε ἀεὶ συνοῦσαι, δημοκρατία ϑατέρᾳ ὄνομ’ ἐστί, τῇ δ’ ἀριστοκρατία ϑατέρᾳ, δι’ ἃς πεπαρῳνήκασιν ἤδη πολλάκις. A more literal translation: And then, since tha...
by Qimmik
Sat Aug 29, 2015 5:48 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Ἡνιόχου
Replies: 5
Views: 1751

Re: Ἡνιόχου

I was going to translate but Stirling beat me to it. Ι'll offer some notes. This is a quotation from an anthology compiled in late antiquity by Stobaeus. It's a fragment of a comedy by Heniochus, Ηνιοχοσ, found in Kock's Comicorum Atticorum Fragmenta , vol. II pp. 433-4. The title of the comedy is u...
by Qimmik
Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:20 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Horace, Odes, 2,8: a question of tone
Replies: 11
Views: 3035

Re: Horace, Odes, 2,8: a question of tone

One other point about this poem, and in particular about its tone: This is a private conversation between Horace and Barine. I think we're to imagine that Barine has just sworn to Horace--by the ashes of her mother! by all the stars in the sky!--that he is her only love, or at least the lover she lo...