Search found 423 matches

by cb
Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:30 am
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: Trip to Greece - advice?
Replies: 10
Views: 464

Re: Trip to Greece - advice?

Hi, it depends on how young your kids are, but mine liked e.g. the National Gardens (it has a zoo, a playground etc.) If they're a bit older, something I liked, a little off the tourist trail, was climbing Mount Zas in Naxos (tallest mountain in the Cyclades, and has a cave of Zeus). It's worth stic...
by cb
Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:34 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Third Declension
Replies: 4
Views: 130

Re: Third Declension

Hi, yes it reminds me (and I'm sure many others too) of the famous story of Winston Churchill, who couldn't understand why anyone would need to learn the vocative of table in Latin: Source: https://newlearningonline.com/new-learning/chapter-2/winston-churchills-school-days Churchill relates a story ...
by cb
Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:13 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Looking for Principle Parts Catalogs
Replies: 8
Views: 168

Re: Looking for Principle Parts Catalogs

Hi all, I agree with everything above, and would add (now that the conversation is shifting from where to find principal parts, to useful ways for learning them), I found Mastronarde's grouping of principal parts into groups really helpful. This is covered on pgs 390–2 of the 2nd edition of Mastrona...
by cb
Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:01 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: To be or not to be?
Replies: 4
Views: 216

Re: To be or not to be?

Hi, this actually depends on the author / period. For Homeric Greek for instance, there is a useful discussion of this in Chantraine 1963 secs 1 and following. For your Attic exercises however, I'd recommend that you follow the guidelines set out in sec. 26.13 of the new Cambridge grammar, which not...
by cb
Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:48 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: How much of JACT is needed to start reading Plato?
Replies: 10
Views: 491

Re: How much of JACT is needed to start reading Plato?

Hi, a great entry point for Plato, for someone who is a fair way through a major textbook (but not yet all the way), is the Crito commentary by Malcolm Campbell (unit 2 in the Greek prose reading course for post-beginners ). As well as having extensive notes, it has a self-contained section explaini...
by cb
Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:40 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Looking for Principle Parts Catalogs
Replies: 8
Views: 168

Re: Looking for Principle Parts Catalogs

Hi, the closest thing I can think of is Marinone's All the Greek Verbs, but it's not quite what you're looking for: it skips verbs only attested in the present tense.

Your best bet would be to read a dictionary, and skip non-verb forms.

Cheers, Chad
by cb
Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:33 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plat., Protag.
Replies: 68
Views: 4031

Re: Plat., Protag.

Hi, I’m coming into this discussion late, but I see a post above on 350d that hasn’t been addressed: ‘τοὺς δὲ ἀνδρείους ὡς οὐ θαρραλέοι εἰσίν, τὸ ἐμὸν ὁμολόγημα οὐδαμοῦ ἐπέδειξας ὡς οὐκ ὀρθῶς ὡμολόγησα. This is the sentence which all the commentators got wrong trying to explain the οὐ . In my opinio...
by cb
Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:47 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Ablative of place without preposition?
Replies: 16
Views: 1266

Re: Ablative of place without preposition?

Hi, I am coming into this conversation very late (I haven’t been on the site since about April, and am only now catching up on the interesting threads posted since) and so apologies if this derails the conversation, but I just wanted to pick up something said right at the beginning of this thread, f...
by cb
Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:25 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plato dictionary
Replies: 4
Views: 618

Re: Plato dictionary

Hi, I have a relatively recent dictionary for Plato by Pradeau and Brisson (2007), in French: https://www.editions-ellipses.fr/dictionnaire-platon-p-6188.html However, (1) it only covers a limited set of words, and (2) nothing (in my view) can replace working through the commentaries on Plato’s dial...
by cb
Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:32 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Helma Dik Word Order in Greek Tragic Dialogue
Replies: 1
Views: 330

Re: Helma Dik Word Order in Greek Tragic Dialogue

Hi, this is an excellent book. You will find it very useful if you accept that pragmatics can give a meaningful account of word order. If however you worry that pragmatics can be partially circular (it explains constituent order in clauses by reference to pragmatics, but interprets pragmatics partia...
by cb
Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:38 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Opt in indirect questions
Replies: 1
Views: 359

Re: Opt in indirect questions

Hi, I haven't had a chance to track through your citations below other than to check them in the Plato OCT (both vol. 3 edited by Burnet): worth checking the main text vs. critical apparatus on both citations. The Euthydemus example has "< ἂν > ἀμφισβητοίην Heindorf" in the apparatus, and the Gorgia...
by cb
Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:06 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Opt after sub or imper
Replies: 3
Views: 585

Re: Opt after sub or imper

Hi, just looking at the first e.g., I take this as an opt. of wish in a dependent construction. See Goodwin 1897 s168: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Goodwin+syntax+168&fromdoc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0065 Chantraine 1963 (i.e. vol. 2) s400 notes that the optative is attested in final...
by cb
Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:38 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Antigone, lines 1-100
Replies: 11
Views: 3957

Re: Antigone, lines 1-100

Many thanks -- I hadn't heard of Earp before and will definitely read this.

Cheers, Chad
by cb
Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:02 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Antigone, lines 1-100
Replies: 11
Views: 3957

Re: Antigone, lines 1-100

Hi Bart, just to add, the most useful syntax I've seen for reading Sophocles is the one by Moorhouse (1982). On v. 21, Moorhouse covers this genitive construction on pg 55, noting that τάφου goes more readily with ἀτιμάζω (as you identified) but also can be linked with προτίω. A long time ago I did ...
by cb
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:43 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Graded readers in Ancient Greek -poll
Replies: 50
Views: 29037

Re: Graded readers in Ancient Greek -poll

Hi Daivid, I haven't followed all the threads you allude to above, but it sounds like your confidence in learning Greek is gone. I'll give my recommendation in light of this, and then some thoughts on some of the points in this thread. Recommendation: Start again. Use the JACT Reading Greek course, ...
by cb
Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:43 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Was the sense “probably” for EIKOTΩΣ classical?
Replies: 22
Views: 5892

Re: Was the sense “probably” for EIKOTΩΣ classical?

Hi, I think it is worth adding that the level of probability is not hard-coded into any particular word in the dictionary, but comes in each case from the context. This is why I completely agree with mwh that ἴσως could express this here. The context will set the level of probability. Looking at the...
by cb
Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:36 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Was the sense “probably” for EIKOTΩΣ classical?
Replies: 22
Views: 5892

Re: Was the sense “probably” for EIKOTΩΣ classical?

Hi mwh, completely agreed. Just to note I wasn't giving alternative suggestions for composing the thought in the original post, but responding to the post prior to mine about whether there were other ways of expressing "probably".

Cheers, Chad
by cb
Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:04 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Was the sense “probably” for EIKOTΩΣ classical?
Replies: 22
Views: 5892

Re: Was the sense “probably” for EIKOTΩΣ classical?

Hi, the verb κινδυνεύω can express probability, e.g. Plat. Rep. 9 571b: τῶν μὴ ἀναγκαίων ἡδονῶν τε καὶ ἐπιθυμιῶν δοκοῦσί τινές μοι εἶναι παράνομοι, αἳ κινδυνεύουσι μὲν ἐγγίγνεσθαι παντί, There are lots of other ways to express probability in addition to those mentioned above in the thread, e.g. ὡς τ...
by cb
Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:29 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plato Philebus
Replies: 2
Views: 1425

Re: Plato Philebus

Hi, agreed with the above. Just to add my thoughts, I think ἀποτελουμένων is more likely to be middle than passive in Phileb. 54e, although it's a fuzzy line between the middle and the other voices in many cases. ἀποτελέω is a denominative (formed from the noun τέλος with the pre-verb ἀπο-) and so, ...
by cb
Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:12 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Easiest Greek & Latin Authors/Texts
Replies: 7
Views: 3348

Re: Easiest Greek & Latin Authors/Texts

Hi Andrew, for Greek I'd say Euclid or other technical texts where simple repetitive structures are used by the author, and where the difficulty is more in the content than in the Greek itself.

Cheers, Chad
by cb
Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:05 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Frontinus, Stragegemata, short hard sentence
Replies: 9
Views: 5255

Re: Frontinus, Stragegemata, short hard sentence

Hi, I don't know syntax peculiarities of those authors outside the canon, but I suspect this is an example of a later construction of impersonal debet + inf.: see e.g. pages 122-123 of "Archaic Syntax in Indo-European: The Spread of Transitivity in Latin and French", section 3.4.1 (Verbs developing ...
by cb
Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:24 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Acute accents on consecutive syllables
Replies: 7
Views: 3608

Re: Acute accents on consecutive syllables

Hi, I doubt we'll ever know how these sequences sounded. However, if these successive acutes aren't simply orthographic conventions but transmit actual historical speech patterns, then going off Devine & Stephens, I doubt that a sequence of acutes would go on successively rising in pitch: that's wha...
by cb
Sun May 14, 2017 7:36 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: The grave accent in Homeric and Classical Greek
Replies: 7
Views: 5940

Re: The grave accent in Homeric and Classical Greek

Hi, agreed the data are extremely limited and so there's only so much you can conclude from them. Just to understand, in say πολλὰς δ᾽ ἰφθίμους, my takeaway from D&S was that the first three syllables would step up successively in pitch (I make no call on the intervals, and so if different authors d...
by cb
Sun May 14, 2017 2:39 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: The grave accent in Homeric and Classical Greek
Replies: 7
Views: 5940

Re: The grave accent in Homeric and Classical Greek

Hi, see Devine & Stephens pigs 180-183 on the pitch implications of the grave accent. They consider all the musical and other evidence (including the Delphic hymns) and conclude that e.g. the grave has a higher relative pitch than the syllable preceding it in the same word (pg 182) but a lower relat...
by cb
Wed May 10, 2017 11:56 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Question about Porson's Bridge (and Devine and Stephens)
Replies: 12
Views: 8776

Re: Question about Porson's Bridge (and Devine and Stephens)

Hi, sorry I don't have a copy anymore nor any material still accessible on the internet as far as I'm aware. No great loss - I've basically just internalised the model (it's the way I pronounce Greek - I built it in my first few years of teaching myself Greek to give myself a method to follow when p...
by cb
Wed May 10, 2017 1:18 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Krashen and Ancient Greek teaching methods
Replies: 48
Views: 27270

Re: Krashen and Ancient Greek teaching methods

Hi, three points in reply to your post above: on word lists, on future comprehensible input resources and (from the other related thread) on learning plateaus. Word lists: You asked whether I think it's worth reading word lists. Yes I do think so, even if you don't come across those words in the nea...
by cb
Tue May 09, 2017 1:04 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Krashen and Ancient Greek teaching methods
Replies: 48
Views: 27270

Re: Krashen and Ancient Greek teaching methods

Hi all, I just took a quick look at the Krashen book linked on the other related thread: http://www.sdkrashen.com/content/books/principles_and_practice.pdf . I skipped to the section "D. Characteristics of Optimal Input for Acquisition" starting pg 62 and only focused on the positive recommendations...
by cb
Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:37 am
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Staying motivated
Replies: 12
Views: 6617

Re: Staying motivated

Hi, just to add to this, I think it's different for each person –see what in general kicks you into starting new things. Try to remember back to what it was that got you interested in classics, and repeat that over and over. For me, watching documentaries is an easy way to kick me back into a partic...
by cb
Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:06 am
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Taking up Latin with Reggie
Replies: 6
Views: 3044

Re: Taking up Latin with Reggie

Hi, I bought Ossa and really like it. I agree an auto-didact couldn't use it as their sole textbook – the basic idea seems to be to learn a principle quickly, dive into any real Latin text from any period, scan for words that appear to reflect the principle, look them up in a big dictionary (I reall...
by cb
Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:31 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Qui sibi nomen imposuit
Replies: 4
Views: 2138

Re: Qui sibi nomen imposuit

hi, the question has already been answered above, but as an aside in case useful, for golden age syntax one of my go-to books is lebreton's études sur la langue et la gramm. de cicéron – this question is covered on pgs 85-86 (giving both alternatives where the word cited is declinable, and lots of e...
by cb
Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:15 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Cambridge Greek Lexicon
Replies: 16
Views: 8989

Re: Cambridge Greek Lexicon

hi, i agree - i think i'll still keep using the LSJ for looking up words when reading. i'll probably instead read this new dictionary outside the context of reading a text, using it instead to look up those common words that have lots of senses, and read the conspectus of senses they group at the be...
by cb
Sun Oct 23, 2016 7:09 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Cambridge Greek Lexicon
Replies: 16
Views: 8989

Re: Cambridge Greek Lexicon

hi, many thanks for this link. i see that they're going to put it on perseus, which will be great (although the fact that they don't include citations will probably mean that i don't use it unfortunately - i tend to read all or most of the whole entry in the LSJ/OLD, including the citations, to lear...
by cb
Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:27 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Iota Subscripts
Replies: 11
Views: 6279

Re: Iota Subscripts

hi, i pronounce it, and i write it adscript not subscript. cheers, chad
by cb
Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:47 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: ossa, reginald foster - out soon
Replies: 12
Views: 5169

Re: ossa, reginald foster - out soon

i guess we'll see soon! i think there's always something useful in every method, something unique and helpful to take away, since no teacher has ever discovered the complete set of optimal lessons and delivery method, and so i'm always flicking through the new books that come out, even though the ol...
by cb
Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:28 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: ossa, reginald foster - out soon
Replies: 12
Views: 5169

ossa, reginald foster - out soon

hi all, apologies if it's been announced already in another thread, but i just randomly bumped into this webpage linked below, about a book coming out in a few days setting out reginald foster's method of teaching latin - thought i'd pass it along: http://thelatinlanguage.org/blog/ossa-published/ ch...
by cb
Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:39 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Monolingual Ancient Greek Lexicon from 16th century
Replies: 26
Views: 18706

Re: Monolingual Ancient Greek Lexicon from 16th century

hi markos, i saw above you were curious about my view on this. sorry i can't visit here as often as i'd like... my view is at the end, but let me give the lead-up first - like most people i assume, i use lexical resources in two ways: 1. to get an overall understanding of a word (outside the context...
by cb
Sun Jul 24, 2016 4:25 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Poll: Iliad 1.5 οἰωνοῖσί τε δαῖτα or οἰωνοῖσί τε πᾶσι?
Replies: 50
Views: 30225

Re: Poll: Iliad 1.5 οἰωνοῖσί τε δαῖτα or οἰωνοῖσί τε πᾶσι?

hi all, quite interesting, i've always thought personally that πᾶσι reads better than δαῖτα (but i have no position on which is more likely historically to have been introduced first). πᾶσι for me rounds off the previous two quantity words μυρί' and πολλάς, binding in a rhetorical way the 3 conseque...
by cb
Sat Jul 23, 2016 4:33 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Caesar's Gallic War in Greek - Καίσαρος Πόλεμος Γαλάτιος ἑλ.
Replies: 42
Views: 17821

Re: Caesar's Gallic War in Greek - Καίσαρος Πόλεμος Γαλάτιος

hi hylander, yep i completely agree with everything you say. does the translator write well? definitely. is it close to attested attic? yes. but it's not quite attested attic, based on a quick read of the first few sentences. the translator uses words not attested in attic, even where attic has atte...
by cb
Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:16 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Poll: Iliad 1.5 οἰωνοῖσί τε δαῖτα or οἰωνοῖσί τε πᾶσι?
Replies: 50
Views: 30225

Re: Poll: Iliad 1.5 οἰωνοῖσί τε δαῖτα or οἰωνοῖσί τε πᾶσι?

my guess is zenodotus would vote: neither. he athetised the verse. sure, his text had δαῖτα. but it athetised the verse containing it. west argues that zenodotus took an ionian rhapsode's copy, full of variants already baked in, e.g. δαῖτα, and produced his edition basically by athetising verses (so...
by cb
Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:40 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Caesar's Gallic War in Greek - Καίσαρος Πόλεμος Γαλάτιος ἑλ.
Replies: 42
Views: 17821

Re: Caesar's Gallic War in Greek - Καίσαρος Πόλεμος Γαλάτιος

hi all, i took a quick look at the first few sentences of that BG translation - the translator obviously knew how to write greek but some bits just felt not quite attic to me. e.g. word choice: the perfect form κεχωρίδαται doesn’t feel familiar from plato or the orators - i’d expect more typical δια...