Search found 426 matches

by John W.
Wed May 15, 2019 7:10 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Lexicon Thucydidæum (1824)
Replies: 4
Views: 662

Re: Lexicon Thucydidæum (1824)

Thanks for your reply, and for the link to Index Thucydideus . As you say, this is simply what it says on the tin. As I mentioned before, I used Betant simply to track down parallel instances of a word, to help me evaluate Thucydides' use of it in various contexts. Thanks for asking about my transla...
by John W.
Wed May 15, 2019 10:46 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Lexicon Thucydidæum (1824)
Replies: 4
Views: 662

Re: Lexicon Thucydidæum (1824)

I've now tracked down the other work I was thinking of: Index Thucydideus by M. H. N. von Essen Dre (Berlin 1887; repr. Darmstadt 1964). I haven't seen this, and so have no idea of its merits or utility.

John
by John W.
Tue May 14, 2019 5:23 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Lexicon Thucydidæum (1824)
Replies: 4
Views: 662

Re: Lexicon Thucydidæum (1824)

I'm unfamiliar with this work. I've used a reprint of Betant's Lexicon Thucydideum (first published in 1843), which I found fairly helpful. Of course, such older works cannot take account of more recent scholarship, notably improved editions of the Greek text of Thucydides, but can be useful in trac...
by John W.
Thu May 17, 2018 11:19 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Thucydides 1.70
Replies: 8
Views: 3079

Re: Thucydides 1.70

I like your rendition, John, it's quite elegant (if I'm any judge). The only drawback is that it's quite understandable, shouldn't you muddle it just bit? :D Thanks, Paul - that's very kind. As the only translation on this scale I've ever attempted, the project made me think hard about how far to r...
by John W.
Tue May 15, 2018 3:12 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Thucydides 1.70
Replies: 8
Views: 3079

Re: Thucydides 1.70

Paul - sorry I wasn't around to help with your last Thucydidean query, though I see you had assistance from abler hands than mine. In my view, διαφέροντας ὑμῶν is qualified by both ὅσον and ὡς πᾶν. In my translation, I rendered this bit as follows: '... and not to have ever reflected on what sort of...
by John W.
Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:38 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Thucydides - good translation
Replies: 34
Views: 9709

Re: Thucydides - good translation

Hylander - I read your post with much interest. A few stray comments: (1) The Arnold in 'Bradley's Arnold' was Thomas Kerchever Arnold (1800-53), whereas Matthew Arnold's father was Dr Thomas Arnold (1795-1842), best remembered nowadays (if at all) as the Headmaster of Rugby in Tom Brown's Schoolday...
by John W.
Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:17 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Thucydides - good translation
Replies: 34
Views: 9709

Re: Thucydides - good translation

With thanks to those who have enquired, my translation of Thucydides has been completed, but is currently languishing until I decide what to do with it (probably some form of print on demand). I'm sorry not to have expedited its appearance, especially since (as it follow's Alberti's text, and is fai...
by John W.
Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:31 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: comparative phrase in Greek
Replies: 9
Views: 3644

Re: comparative phrase in Greek

May I offer another example, from my favourite author? In speaking of the Chians, Thucydides (8.24.4) comments: καὶ ὅσῳ ἐπεδίδου ἡ πόλις αὐτοῖς ἐπὶ τὸ μεῖζον, τόσῳ δὲ καὶ ἐκοσμοῦντο ἐχυρώτερον.

Best wishes,
John
by John W.
Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:46 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Thucydides 5.83.4
Replies: 17
Views: 9590

Re: Thucydides 5.83.4

Michael - many thanks from me too for your very helpful note on papyri and the manuscript tradition. Hylander: This has made me want to re-read Thucydides instead of the many things I should be reading (including Steisichorus, Pindar and drama). Re-reading Thucydides sounds an excellent idea! Your m...
by John W.
Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:12 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Thucydides 5.83.4
Replies: 17
Views: 9590

Re: Thucydides 5.83.4

Here’s a makeshift translation for the first-aid. It may or may not be slightly better than a Google translation would be. I don’t understand the intricacies of text critique. Errors and omissions may be expected and improvements are most welcome. Stylistically it’s of course substandard. Timothée ...
by John W.
Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:28 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Thucydides 5.83.4
Replies: 17
Views: 9590

Re: Thucydides 5.83.4

Timothée - many thanks indeed for the Luschnat. I must confess that my German is virtually non-existent, but I've been able to decipher entries in the Thucydidean commentaries of Krüger and Classen-Steup, so I'll gradually work my way through it. At first glance, however, it does seem to support Mic...
by John W.
Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:50 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Thucydides 5.83.4
Replies: 17
Views: 9590

Re: Thucydides 5.83.4

Joel, Hylander, Michael – many thanks for your comments. On the basis of responses thus far, I’m inclined to stick with my current translation (while recognising the difficulties and uncertainties here). While I generally find Alberti’s text a marked improvement on the OCT, there are a couple of pla...
by John W.
Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:11 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Thucydides 5.83.4
Replies: 17
Views: 9590

Re: Thucydides 5.83.4

Joel, Bedwere - many thanks for your comments. With regard to μάλιστα, if it went with ἐπάραντος would one expect the word order to be καὶ ἡ στρατιὰ διελύθη μάλιστα ἐκείνου ἐπάραντος? The actual placement of μάλιστα inclines me to take it with διελύθη (though I may be wrong in this). The possibility...
by John W.
Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:07 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Thucydides 5.83.4
Replies: 17
Views: 9590

Thucydides 5.83.4

Before finally signing off on my translation of Thucydides, I’d be really grateful for any views on one passage; I give the Greek text below from Alberti’s edition (which I have used for my translation), followed by a note of differences from the OCT. κατέκλῃσαν δὲ τοῦ αὐτοῦ χειμῶνος καὶ Μακεδόνας Ἀ...
by John W.
Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:35 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: [Unified Topic] definitions of the authent- words
Replies: 57
Views: 25920

Re: [Unified Topic] definitions of the authent- words

I probably shouldn't venture into these somewhat turbid waters, but how can one possibly take αὐθεντεῖν plus genitive as meaning 'incite to murder'? Apart from the linguistic/grammatical difficulties, this seems to me to make no sense in the context. As Joel has said, what is wanted is something whi...
by John W.
Sun Oct 09, 2016 9:21 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: thucydides 7 69.2
Replies: 1
Views: 1375

Re: thucydides 7 69.2

ἄλλα τε λέγων ὅσα ἐν τῷ τοιούτῳ ἤδη τοῦ καιροῦ ὄντες ἄνθρωποι οὐ πρὸς τὸ δοκεῖν τινὶ ἀρχαιολογεῖν φυλαξάμενοι εἴποιεν ἄν, A literal translation please. Thanks Richard Ross Richard - in my (fairly literal) translation of Thucydides I've rendered this as: '... and mentioning everything else that men ...
by John W.
Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:14 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: thucydides
Replies: 3
Views: 1942

Re: thucydides

In his 'Green and Yellow' Cambridge edition of Book II, J.S. Rusten takes αὐτὰ in 2.36.4 as 'the power whose growth is sketched in 36. 2-3: κτησάμενοι γὰρ ... αὐταρκεστάτην'. Rusten adds that Thucydides 'occasionally uses the neuter plural αὐτὰ to refer with a single substantive to groups of ideas j...
by John W.
Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:44 am
Forum: The Agora
Topic: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)
Replies: 327
Views: 198372

Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Daivid - in your last two posts, I would suggest you look again at βουλομένων and ἦχε.

Best wishes,

John
by John W.
Mon Sep 05, 2016 12:25 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: How to express time (year) when
Replies: 8
Views: 3756

Re: How to express time (year) when

Timothée wrote: But isn't it the genitive ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΔΟC we expect at the end (with ΤΗC), not the accusative plural ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΔΑC?
Timothée - you're quite right about this, of course; many thanks for pointing it out.

John
by John W.
Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:40 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: How to express time (year) when
Replies: 8
Views: 3756

Re: How to express time (year) when

In my thread about 'A country house inscription', I described an inscription at Hammerwood Park which includes the following: ΕΠΟΙΕ ΤΟΝ ΑΨϞΒ ΕΝΕΑΥΤΟΝ ΙΗϹΟΥ ΧΡΙϹΤΟΥ ΚΑΙ ΤΟΝ ΔΕΥΤΕΡΟΝ ΤΗϹ ΧʹΜΒʹ ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΔΑϹ. The intended sense is: 'He [Benjamin Henry Latrobe, the architect] constructed it in the 1792nd y...
by John W.
Sat Sep 03, 2016 5:43 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: How to express time (year) when
Replies: 8
Views: 3756

Re: How to express time (year) when

Timothée - one example occurs at the start of Book 2 of Thucydides (2.2.1), where he cites a variety of different dating systems in order to fix clearly the start of the war: τέσσαρα μὲν γὰρ καὶ δέκα ἔτη ἐνέμειναν αἱ τριακοντούτεις σπονδαὶ αἳ ἐγένοντο μετ᾽ Εὐβοίας ἅλωσιν: τῷ δὲ πέμπτῳ καὶ δεκάτῳ ἔτε...
by John W.
Sat Sep 03, 2016 7:52 am
Forum: The Agora
Topic: Markos -yes lets do 20 questions
Replies: 119
Views: 75338

Re: Markos -yes lets do 20 questions

Gentlemen: With sincere apologies for intruding on your thread, may I raise one question, and offer one suggestion? (i) In English we can certainly say 'the year of 1865' (or whatever), but is that really a Greek idiom too? (ii) Since this conversation is meant to be in some (albeit adapted) form of...
by John W.
Sat Aug 27, 2016 8:08 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: A country house inscription
Replies: 3
Views: 1641

Re: A country house inscription

Unfortunately, the video doesn't show the last part of the inscription, but, with the help of photographs from the owner, I''ve been able to revise the transcription as follows: ΤΗϹ ΤΟΥ ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ ϹΠΕΡΛΙΝΓΟΥ ΕΠΑΥΛΕΩϹ ΠΡΟΣΤΥΛΗ ΠΡΩΤΗ. ΑΡΧΙΤΕΚΤΩΝ B. ϜΕ. ΛΑΤΡΩΒΕ. ΕΠΟΙΕ ΤΟΝ ΑΨϞΒ ΕΝΕΑΥΤΟΝ ΙΗϹΟΥ ΧΡΙϹΤΟΥ ΚΑΙ Τ...
by John W.
Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:04 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: A country house inscription
Replies: 3
Views: 1641

Re: A country house inscription

Joel - many thanks for this, which looks as if should answer at least some of my queries (ΑΨΘΒ, for example, should be ΑΨϟΒ, with a small form of koppa, rather than a theta).

Best wishes,

John
by John W.
Thu Aug 25, 2016 12:50 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: A country house inscription
Replies: 3
Views: 1641

A country house inscription

Yesterday I visited Hammerwood Park near East Grinstead, an attractive country house designed in 1792 for John Sperling by the distinguished architect Benjamin Henry Latrobe, who subsequently moved to America and did much work on the US Capitol and White House, as well as other commissions. My visit...
by John W.
Sun Aug 21, 2016 8:27 am
Forum: The Agora
Topic: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)
Replies: 327
Views: 198372

Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Daivid - in addition to the specific points made by Michael, may I offer one suggestion? This is the third occasion in a relatively short space of time that the case to be used with χρώμενος has caused you problems. Is there perhaps a case (no pun intended) for you to make a note of such things, and...
by John W.
Wed Aug 17, 2016 7:16 am
Forum: The Agora
Topic: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)
Replies: 327
Views: 198372

Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

Why not simply use μόλις on its own, which is how Thucydides conveys the sense 'with difficulty', or 'it was only with difficulty [that X did Y]' (if that's what you're after here)?

John
by John W.
Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:39 am
Forum: The Agora
Topic: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)
Replies: 327
Views: 198372

Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

ἀκονιτί is a nice word (lit. “undustily,” κόνις dust, ἀ- a negating prefix as in asymptomatic, -ί an old adverbial ending) but an unusual one I just came across this word in Wilson's Harry Potter, and knew it because of Daivid's use here, and the discussion. "Ἀκονιτὶ γὰρ προὐχώρησεν;" There is also...
by John W.
Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:20 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Caesar's Gallic War in Greek - Καίσαρος Πόλεμος Γαλάτιος ἑλ.
Replies: 42
Views: 18083

Re: Caesar's Gallic War in Greek - Καίσαρος Πόλεμος Γαλάτιος

I wonder where you first got the understanding that Thucydides is difficult, Paul. Wherever you got it, I see that this bias does hold really fast. When I took a text reading course on H+T many years ago, I didn't know that Thucydides is difficult and that one is supposed to keep this in mind while...
by John W.
Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:47 am
Forum: The Agora
Topic: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)
Replies: 327
Views: 198372

Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

daivid wrote:πάλιν ἔγραψα πέρι τοῦ Ἰσαακος βύβλου καὶ ἀνέγνων ἤδη ἀναγνωσθησόμενον μέρος τοῦ τοῦ Πλουτάρχου βιοῦ πέρι Θεμιστοκλέους.
Daivid - ἀναγνωσθησόμενον is future; did you want aorist here?

John
by John W.
Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:54 pm
Forum: The Agora
Topic: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)
Replies: 327
Views: 198372

Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

daivid wrote: τημερον χρώμενος λόγους ἐκ τῆς τοῦ Στράβωνος γεωγραφίας εγραψα περι τῆς τοῦ Ἰσαακος* βύβλου.


*Benjamin Isaac
Daivid - thanks. χρώμενος actually takes the dative, not accusative; I'm also unsure why we've got βύβλου - any reason why it's not just βίβλου?

Sorry to seem so picky!

John
by John W.
Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:01 pm
Forum: The Agora
Topic: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)
Replies: 327
Views: 198372

Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

daivid wrote:τημερον χρῶν λόγους ἐκ τὴν τοῦ Στράβωνος γεωγραφικὰς εγραψα περι τῆς τοῦ Ἰσαακος βύβλου.
Daivid - as Michael flagged up in a post of 12 June above, χρῶν λόγους doesn't work. And what about ἐκ τὴν? I think you probably need to double-check agreement etc.

John
by John W.
Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:20 pm
Forum: The Agora
Topic: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)
Replies: 327
Views: 198372

Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

τήμερον διετελέσατε τήν πράξεις  τῶν Ἀποστόλων ἀναγιγνώσκων. Daivid - διετελέσατε? John διετέλουν? Daivid Daivid - sorry my previous comment was a bit rushed. If the sense is 'continued', then διετέλουν might be better; if you're opting for the aorist, it should (as you no doubt know) be διετελέσα,...
by John W.
Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:06 am
Forum: The Agora
Topic: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)
Replies: 327
Views: 198372

Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

daivid wrote:τήμερον διετελέσατε τήν πράξεις  τῶν Ἀποστόλων ἀναγιγνώσκων.
Daivid - διετελέσατε?

John
by John W.
Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:05 am
Forum: The Agora
Topic: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)
Replies: 327
Views: 198372

Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

ἐνθυμούμενος περὶ τοῦ τῆς ἀγαθῆς ῥήτορος φόνου δύσκολος ἦν μανθάνειν τὴν ἑλληνικὴν γλώτταν ἀλλὰ ὅμως ἐμάνθανον τὴν τοῦ Φαρνελλος βίβλου. Daivid - I certainly share the sentiment; surely, however, to give the sense you want from δύσκολος, the construction here would have to be impersonal. What about...
by John W.
Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:41 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: anabasis 1.9.21
Replies: 26
Views: 10165

Re: anabasis 1.9.21

Daivid - if I may be permitted to try to explain, the point is that, in the second half of the sentence, the structure changes from what one would have expected on the basis of its first half. When reading the first half of the sentence, one naturally (I would say) expects that αὐτὸ τοῦτο will be th...
by John W.
Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:32 pm
Forum: The Agora
Topic: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)
Replies: 327
Views: 198372

Re: What I did studying Greek today (in Greek)

τήμερον ἔγνως τὸ μέρος Πράξεων τῶν Ἀποστόλων περὶ Πέτρου λέγοντος τοὺς τοῦ προφήτου Ἰωήλ. ἡ γλώσσα ἦν ἀήθης. Daivid - did you mean ἔγνων? (This also occurs in a couple of your other recent posts here.) With τοὺς is (e.g.) λογους to be understood? I'm also not entirely sure about γλώσσα. In English,...
by John W.
Mon May 30, 2016 7:11 pm
Forum: Composition Board
Topic: Frederick Douglass, indefinite practice
Replies: 5
Views: 2896

Re: Frederick Douglass, indefinite practice

Daivid - I'm afraid I haven't got time at the moment to go through this in detail, but there do seem to be some issues (e.g. of agreement) to address. For example, the start of the first sentence must mean 'Hopkins whipped his slaves' - so why ἐμαστίγουν (plural)? And why νομίζοντες (again plural), ...
by John W.
Thu May 19, 2016 3:15 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Another example of ordinal + αὐτός, "himself and x-1 others"
Replies: 7
Views: 2943

Re: Another example of ordinal + αὐτός, "himself and x-1 oth

As I believe Hylander has mentioned elsewhere, there are various examples of this idiom in Thucydides (I did make a list of them at one point, but have unfortunately mislaid it). Sir Kenneth Dover wrote a paper entitled 'ΔΕΚΑΤΟΣ ΑΥΤΟΣ' about whether that phrase (which is applied to Pericles in Thucy...
by John W.
Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:05 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: The Mental Utility and Profit of Studying Latin
Replies: 19
Views: 9899

Re: The Mental Utility and Profit of Studying Latin

The revolutionaries hated Latin because it symbolised the ancien régime and the clergy. I don't see how this could ever be true. The Roman tradition was everywhere to be found in the Revolution, from the way they dressed themselves, to the titles they took (consuls!), to the iconography they adopte...