Search found 1248 matches

by C. S. Bartholomew
Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:04 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: ἀθανασία
Replies: 27
Views: 622

Re: ἀθανασία

The only way to find out how Paul uses a particular word is to read the traditional Pauline Canon exhaustively. The wrong place to start is focusing on a hidden nuance, a supposed distinction between this word and that word. Lexical semantics isn't really that important. You must be able to read fre...
by C. S. Bartholomew
Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:22 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: <noun1> καὶ <noun2> ἢ <noun3> in Eph.5:3
Replies: 8
Views: 632

Re: <noun1> καὶ <noun2> ἢ <noun3> in Eph.5:3

Πορνεία δὲ καὶ πᾶσα ἀκαθαρσία ἢ πλεονεξία μη δὲ ὀνομαζέσθω ἐν ὑμῖν, καθὼς πρέπει ἁγίοις· I can't follow the logic of the two conjunctions between the nouns here: ● Is the authour saying that two of them are equivalent - and if so which two? ● Why is μηδὲ used instead of a simple μή? Moulton-Turner,...
by C. S. Bartholomew
Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:48 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Reading On the Incarnation St. Athanasius
Replies: 27
Views: 5550

Re: Reading On the Incarnation St. Athanasius

This is a question! Is σώματος the antecedent of τούτου? On the Incarnation St. Athanasius § 44.1 Ἀλλ' ἴσως συγκαταθήσονται μὲν τούτοις αἰσχυνόμενοι, θελήσουσι δὲ λέγειν, ὅτι ἔδει τὸν Θεόν, παιδεῦσαι καὶ σῶσαι θέλοντα τοὺς ἀνθρώπους, νεύματι μόνον ποιῆσαι, καὶ μὴ σώματος ἅψασθαι τὸν τούτου Λόγον, ὥ...
by C. S. Bartholomew
Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:12 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Reading On the Incarnation St. Athanasius
Replies: 27
Views: 5550

Re: Reading On the Incarnation St. Athanasius

Just returned several monographs on Athanasius which were not really very helpful. I haven't found anything in English that could be called a commentary dealing with On the Incarnation . A Patristic Greek Reader , Rodney Whitacre 2007, includes a few segments from On the Incarnation . He provides br...
by C. S. Bartholomew
Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:10 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Looking for advice on which dialects to concern myself with
Replies: 23
Views: 1536

Re: Looking for advice on which dialects to concern myself w

The early fathers from the age when the Church did not hold social status wrote in the venacular, the later fathers wrote in Atticising style. You could just learn Koine to read the early fathers, but you will need to read Attic to understand the Greek of the golden age of the church. To understand...
by C. S. Bartholomew
Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:26 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Locating the text of the rite of ἀδελφοποίησις?
Replies: 2
Views: 750

Re: Locating the text of the rite of ἀδελφοποίησις?

demetri wrote: ... many mistakenly think it shows same sex unions being blessed in the Church.

It was used to reconcile enemies.

https://orthodoxwiki.org/Adelphopoiesis
Boswell's notorious anachronism.
by C. S. Bartholomew
Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:07 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Why study biblical Greek? a Bum Steer
Replies: 16
Views: 1303

Why study biblical Greek? a Bum Steer

just sighted in answers to the question: Why study biblical Greek?
Because "verb aspect" is not a formal feature of English.
A Bum Steer.

postscript: Verb Aspect has a cult following in biblical studies.
by C. S. Bartholomew
Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:39 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Vocab sorted via NT book?
Replies: 17
Views: 5978

Re: Vocab sorted via NT book?

Shared an office 30 years ago with people who were working on software that could do that. paratext? Had to lookup paratext. The two people I shared a cube with in the late 1980s were certified AI Associates (Advanced Technology Center, Boeing Computer Services) who were trained in natural language...
by C. S. Bartholomew
Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:23 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Vocab sorted via NT book?
Replies: 17
Views: 5978

Re: Vocab sorted via NT book?

ἑκηβόλος wrote:
daveburt wrote: Is your friend's software sophisticated enough to give the contextually "correct" gloss for a word where it is found in the "book or chapter or arbitrary passage"?
Not a trivial problem. Shared an office 30 years ago with people who were working on software that could do that.
by C. S. Bartholomew
Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:53 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Genitive with verbal nouns.
Replies: 9
Views: 1118

Re: Genitive with verbal nouns.

Yes, Carl's comments are worth considering. However, to explain what Ruck meant, he's talking about what is normally called the objective genitive. This occurs when the verbal idea contained in a noun takes a genitive in Latin or Greek that is best rendered with "of" or "for" in English. Ruck's exa...
by C. S. Bartholomew
Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:08 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Genitive with verbal nouns.
Replies: 9
Views: 1118

Re: Genitive with verbal nouns.

This has been discussed endlessly on b-greek, Carl Conrad's comments are worth reading. https://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2130&start=10 http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/test-archives/html4/1999-10/33654.html http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/archives/96-12/0925.html https://www.ibib...
by C. S. Bartholomew
Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:06 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: 1 Ti 4:3 κωλυόντων γαμεῖν, ἀπέχεσθαι βρωμάτων
Replies: 8
Views: 1356

Re: 1 Ti 4:3 κωλυόντων γαμεῖν, ἀπέχεσθαι βρωμάτων

Barry Hofstetter wrote: There is no manuscript evidence which would support the need for a CE, and needless to say, nobody in the history of interpretation has ever read it this way.
Right. NT conjectural emendations are Area 51.
by C. S. Bartholomew
Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:58 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Difficult passage in Plato's Republic
Replies: 6
Views: 1091

Re: Difficult passage in Plato's Republic

Plato Phil., Respublic 580a Οὐκοῦν καὶ πρὸς τούτοις ἔτι ἀποδώσομεν τῷ ἀνδρὶ καὶ ἃ τὸ πρότερον εἴπομεν, ὅτι ἀνάγκη καὶ εἶναι καὶ ἔτι μᾶλλον γίγνεσθαι αὐτῷ ἢ πρότερον διὰ τὴν ἀρχὴν φθονερῷ, ἀπίστῳ, ἀδίκῳ, ἀφίλῳ, ἀνοσίῳ καὶ πάσης κακίας πανδοκεῖ τε καὶ | τροφεῖ, καὶ ἐξ ἁπάντων τούτων μάλιστα μὲν αὐτῷ δ...
by C. S. Bartholomew
Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:35 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Difficult passage in Plato's Republic
Replies: 6
Views: 1091

Re: Difficult passage in Plato's Republic

I learned Morse code for my amateur radio license when I was a kid. My father was a radio operator (signal corps) and radar officer WWII Iceland. I didn't take much interest in radio electronics even after several Eico & Heathkit projects. :-( RE: quoting Smyth As David from the UK has pointed out ...
by C. S. Bartholomew
Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:09 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Difficult passage in Plato's Republic
Replies: 6
Views: 1091

Re: Difficult passage in Plato's Republic

jeidsath wrote:From the LSJ, ἀνάγκη is c. inf. and c. dat. pers.

And see Smyth 1040 for the predicate adjective:
di di dit dah dah dah di di dit [1]
This is not an explanation. It is an encoded cryptograph.


[1] SOS in morse code
by C. S. Bartholomew
Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:33 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: διαπαρατριβή vs. παραδιατριβή 1 Tim.6:5
Replies: 9
Views: 1582

Re: διαπαρατριβή vs. παραδιατριβή 1 Tim.6:5

Clement of Alexandria has a diatribe about evil sophistry in which he cites 1 Tim.6:5. If you read the whole chapter you will get lots of useful context for determining the meaning of the word διαπαρατριβαὶ. English version: http://www.orthodoxebooks.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/The%20Stromata%20-%2...
by C. S. Bartholomew
Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:12 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: διαπαρατριβή vs. παραδιατριβή 1 Tim.6:5
Replies: 9
Views: 1582

Re: διαπαρατριβή vs. παραδιατριβή 1 Tim.6:5

The "meaning" of this word διαπαρατριβαί is certainly a lot more speculative than most. The patristic evidence for διαπαρατριβαί is fairly substantial, most of it quoting 1Tim.6:5. Bauer (Danker 3rd ed.) that which is characterized by constant argumentativeness and therefore irritating, wrangling p...
by C. S. Bartholomew
Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:48 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: διαπαρατριβή vs. παραδιατριβή 1 Tim.6:5
Replies: 9
Views: 1582

Re: διαπαρατριβή vs. παραφιατριβή 1 Tim.6:5

Readings from the TR are generally ignored in contemporary biblical studies. I found one reference[1] to this in a 2016 dissertation University of Edinburgh. There was no discussion of the variant but it was included in the apparatus. In the second half of the 19th century the TR was a hot topic. He...
by C. S. Bartholomew
Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:17 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Translation of a Few Greek Sentences
Replies: 26
Views: 2430

Re: Translation of a Few Greek Sentences

Since the word primarily means "presence," does anyone know why, from the perspective of the morphology of the word, people began to use it with the meaning “coming” in some contexts? TDNT gives the history of the usage of the word but does not clearly explain why it began to be used with this sens...
by C. S. Bartholomew
Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:58 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Translation of a Few Greek Sentences
Replies: 26
Views: 2430

Re: Translation of a Few Greek Sentences

The author of this text appears to be employing a lot of stock (stereotyped) phrases which can be found in canonical sources. e.g., line 2 ἄγγελοι πονηροί Is. 30:4 ὅτι εἰσὶν ἐν Τάνει ἀρχηγοὶ ἄγγελοι πονηροί· μάτην κοπιάσουσιν RE: mortgaging the house At the Accordance site. It may be buried in a co...
by C. S. Bartholomew
Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:31 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Translation of a Few Greek Sentences
Replies: 26
Views: 2430

Re: Translation of a Few Greek Sentences

I needed to see what the surrounding context says, and have to ask others for help in such cases. I spent years of my life studying both Greek and Hebrew apocalyptic literature (over 25 years ago). The author of this text appears to be employing a lot of stock (stereotyped) phrases which can be fou...
by C. S. Bartholomew
Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:28 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: The use of the theta passives in the middle-passive system.
Replies: 39
Views: 3571

Re: The use of the theta passives in the middle-passive syst

I've asked this question before, and never gotten an answer, so let me ask it again. Does everybody already agree that Greek is composed by making general statements, followed by specific ones? In other words there is more specificity at the end of a sentence, phrase or couplet than at the beginnin...
by C. S. Bartholomew
Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:16 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: The use of the theta passives in the middle-passive system.
Replies: 39
Views: 3571

Re: The use of the theta passives in the middle-passive syst

ἑκηβόλος, You have introduced terminology foreign to classical philology.[1] It is somewhat risky to attempt an exposition of Carl Conrad's thesis. Reading your posts is kind of like trying to understand Standard Theory (early Chomsky) by observing how transformational grammar was used in the mid-20...
by C. S. Bartholomew
Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:35 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Question re Numbers 6:24-26
Replies: 6
Views: 1394

Re: Question re Numbers 6:24-26

See the Dutch linguist Helma Dik who teaches classics (U Chicago) on the Subjunctive and Optative: USES OF THE SUBJUNCTIVE AND OPTATIVE https://classics.uchicago.edu/files/mayandmight.pdf Postscript: Tyndale House Cambridge Greek Verb Conference 2015: The invited Classicists included Rutger Allan (V...
by C. S. Bartholomew
Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:55 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Question re Numbers 6:24-26
Replies: 6
Views: 1394

Re: Question re Numbers 6:24-26

Num. 6:24 Εὐλογήσαι σε κύριος καὶ φυλάξαι σε,

Num. 6:25 ἐπιφάναι κύριος τὸ πρόσωπον αὐτοῦ ἐπὶ σὲ καὶ ἐλεήσαι σε,

Num. 6:26 ἐπάραι κύριος τὸ πρόσωπον αὐτοῦ ἐπὶ σὲ καὶ δῴη σοι εἰρήνην.

--αι 3rd person sg aor act opative

δῴη 3rd person sg aor act opative δίδωμι
by C. S. Bartholomew
Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:19 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Translation of a Greek Sentence
Replies: 7
Views: 1515

Re: Translation of a Greek Sentence

To cover the subject, you may need to look at other words, for example: Bauer (abridged) s.v. παραγίνομαι 1 to be in movement so as to be present at a particular place, draw near, come, arrive, be present 2 make a public appearance, appear 3 to come to help, stand by, come to the aid of Lampe (abrid...
by C. S. Bartholomew
Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:46 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: The old BAG or BGAD on βιάζω
Replies: 7
Views: 1627

Re: The old BAG or BGAD on βιάζω

I just realised...a pre-software version is not just a simple copy and paste! Just wondering especially about the smaller section 3, if you could enlighten with what the nature of the changes were? No worries if its too troublesome, I'll be visiting a library in September... Eons ago someone who di...
by C. S. Bartholomew
Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:36 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Reading On the Incarnation St. Athanasius
Replies: 27
Views: 5550

Re: Reading On the Incarnation St. Athanasius

On the question raised in my last post I found someone else who noticed this issue and commented on it: Athanasius: Mortality and the Problem of Unbecoming http://existdissolve.com/2010/12/athanasius-mortality-and-the-problem-of-unbecoming/ and another one employing "Critical Theory" [1] https://www...
by C. S. Bartholomew
Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:27 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: The old BAG or BGAD on βιάζω
Replies: 7
Views: 1627

Re: The old BAG or BGAD on βιάζω

Phil T wrote:Hello,

If any of you have the older version, could you check for me whether Danker made changes to BDAG's βιάζω entry?
Yes he made changes.
by C. S. Bartholomew
Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:05 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Beginning vs Ending of Clause
Replies: 4
Views: 948

Re: Beginning vs Ending of Clause

Here are some keywords you can use to find discussions of this topic: "word order" salience marking functional grammar Prague school The various schools of functional grammar (M. A. K. Halliday, Simon Dik, Talmy Givon) have attempted to demonstrate that fronting (placing a constituent before the mai...
by C. S. Bartholomew
Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:41 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Sallust and the New Testament
Replies: 2
Views: 1161

Re: Sallust and the New Testament

Barry Hofstetter wrote:
And how similar it is to Paul in Rom 1:18ff:

Paul, Rom 1:18-32 wrote: Ἀποκαλύπτεται γὰρ ὀργὴ θεοῦ ἀπʼ οὐρανοῦ ἐπὶ πᾶσαν ἀσέβειαν καὶ ἀδικίαν ἀνθρώπων τῶν τὴν ἀλήθειαν ἐν ἀδικίᾳ κατεχόντων, ...
You didn't by any chance study Cornelius Van Til?
by C. S. Bartholomew
Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:38 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Beginner's question
Replies: 8
Views: 1461

Re: Beginner's question

The first question I would ask: Do we find any occurrences where the adjective is paired with θάλασσα? Scholia In Aeschylum, γναμπτόμενοι] γναμπτόμενοι δὲ καὶ συντριβόμενοι οἱ Πέρ- σαι τῇ δεινῇ θαλάσσῃ σκύλλονται καὶ σύρονται καὶ ἐσθίονται πρὸς τῶν ἀναύδων καὶ ἀφώνων παίδων τῆς ἀμιάντου, γναμπτόμενο...
by C. S. Bartholomew
Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:13 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Beginner's question
Replies: 8
Views: 1461

Re: Beginner's question

Hylander wrote:... but the piling up of genitives that this sentence calls for is very un-Greek.

But perfectly good Biblical Hebrew and very common in the Septuagint. I'm not a fan of Pharr, if you prefer old textbooks Benner is better for learning Homer.

https://archive.org/details/selectionsfromh01brengoog
by C. S. Bartholomew
Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:45 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: ἁρπαζω in TDNT
Replies: 4
Views: 1215

Re: ἁρπαζω in TDNT

TDNT is an an anchor which holds down the bottom shelf of a bookcase. On average I look at it twice a year. By comparison I look at Louw & Nida every day. Citing snippets from Louw & Nida doesn't reflect intended use of the dictionary. The entries in each of the domains need to be studied in referen...
by C. S. Bartholomew
Wed May 30, 2018 12:16 am
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Reading On the Incarnation St. Athanasius
Replies: 27
Views: 5550

Re: Reading On the Incarnation St. Athanasius

$ 4.4 Οὕτως μὲν οὖν ὁ Θεὸς τὸν ἄνθρωπον πεποίηκε, καὶ μένειν ἠθέλησεν ἐν ἀφθαρσίᾳ · ἄνθρωποι δὲ κατολιγωρήσαντες καὶ ἀποστραφέντες τὴν πρὸς τὸν Θεὸν κατανόησιν, λογισάμενοι δὲ καὶ ἐπινοήσαντες ἑαυτοῖς τὴν κακίαν, ὥσπερ ἐν τοῖς πρώτοις ἐλέχθη, ἔσχον τὴν προαπειληθεῖσαν τοῦ θανάτου κατάκρισιν, καὶ λο...
by C. S. Bartholomew
Thu May 24, 2018 3:32 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Mark 8:12 εἰ = if they think ..., there is another thing com
Replies: 17
Views: 2017

Re: Mark 8:12 εἰ = if they think ..., there is another thing

By way of contextualisation, let me quote the whole of the twelfth verse together with the one preceeding it. Καὶ ἐξῆλθον οἱ Φαρισαῖοι, καὶ ἤρξαντο συζητεῖν αὐτῷ, ζητοῦντες παρ’ αὐτοῦ σημεῖον ἀπὸ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ , πειράζοντες αὐτόν. Καὶ ἀναστενάξας τῷ πνεύματι αὐτοῦ λέγει , Τί ἡ γενεὰ αὕτη σημεῖον ἐπιζ...
by C. S. Bartholomew
Tue May 22, 2018 5:23 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: basics: dictionary, grammar
Replies: 13
Views: 1643

Re: basics: dictionary, grammar

I am occasionally tempted to build my own tools but always regret time wasted on such efforts. Last two days I attempted to construct a table in OpenOffice Writer with the numbered paragraphs from an ancient Greek text in the left hand column and a modern translation in the right column. This turned...
by C. S. Bartholomew
Wed May 16, 2018 7:51 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Reading On the Incarnation St. Athanasius
Replies: 27
Views: 5550

Re: Reading On the Incarnation St. Athanasius

In a manner that might come as a surprise to a student from the third millennium, Athanasius grounds his argument for the Incarnation in creation, following the pattern set by the prologue to John's Gospel. He cites from Moses, Paul (Hebrews), and the Shepard of Hermas which he sets apart from Moses...
by C. S. Bartholomew
Tue May 15, 2018 5:00 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Reading On the Incarnation St. Athanasius
Replies: 27
Views: 5550

Re: Reading On the Incarnation St. Athanasius

Athanasius On the incarnation 2.5 Οἱ δὲ ἀπὸ τῶν αἱρέσεων ἄλλον ἑαυτοῖς ἀναπλάττονται δημιουργὸν τῶν πάντων παρὰ τὸν Πατέρα τοῦ Κυρίου ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, τυφλώττοντες μέγα καὶ περὶ ἃ φθέγγονται. Others, again, from the heretics fabricate for themselves another creator of all things besides the Fath...
by C. S. Bartholomew
Mon May 14, 2018 10:14 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Reading On the Incarnation St. Athanasius
Replies: 27
Views: 5550

Re: Reading On the Incarnation St. Athanasius

Wow, I was looking for anything dealing with this text, as I plan on reading the Greek text this summer (I have read it in English a few years back). How would any of you rate the difficulty of St. Athanasius' Greek? Is he an Atticist? Is knowledge of Koine Greek sufficient? Thanks. Hello Thomas, I...