Search found 426 matches

by spiphany
Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:49 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Variable accents
Replies: 4
Views: 2351

Re: Variable accents

Something that may be also helpful in thinking about this issue is to consider to what degree accent is contrastive in classical Greek and to what degree it is simply a feature of the prosody. So regarding the point about "a single word pronounced two different ways" -- it seems to me this is only w...
by spiphany
Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:07 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Learning the Greek Alphabet
Replies: 3
Views: 3103

Re: Learning the Greek Alphabet

Donald Mastronarde also has some pronunciation practice here: http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~ancgreek/ He outlines what pronunciation scheme he is using somewhere on his website, I believe. You may be opening a can of worms if you start wondering about what is "correct" and "learning bad habits". The...
by spiphany
Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:26 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Song of Seikilos
Replies: 28
Views: 14933

Re: Song of Seikilos

Hagel says on his website: "Individual accents produce smaller deviations from the overall melody (as in the extant musical documents). Each (major) accent may be realized by a rise to the accented syllable, but must be followed by a melodic fall. In the case of circumflex syllables, the post-accen...
by spiphany
Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:04 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: A variety of questions:
Replies: 3
Views: 2063

Re: A variety of questions:

Just a couple of comments about the use of articles, since you were finding this confusing. I'm going to be really basic here in places, but don't feel insulted; I find that students get so overwhelmed by rules that it's easy to lose sight of the underlying workings of the language & it sometimes he...
by spiphany
Fri May 31, 2013 7:42 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Polis by Christophe Rico
Replies: 5
Views: 5435

Re: Polis by Christophe Rico

Okay, contrary to what I just wrote, I am going to add a couple of concrete examples of what I mean about some of the formulations in Polis seeming odd to someone accustomed to Attic Greek rather than Koine. Early on, Rico introduces the pair of opposites δυσκολος and ευκοπος (difficult/easy). Neith...
by spiphany
Fri May 31, 2013 7:04 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Polis by Christophe Rico
Replies: 5
Views: 5435

Re: Polis by Christophe Rico

I'm going to offer a dissenting opinion and say that I've never really been able to warm up to Polis . I think a lot of my issue with it may be due to the fact that Polis is really aimed at learners interested in Koine, and my background is mostly from the opposite end of the temporal spectrum (Epic...
by spiphany
Fri May 31, 2013 6:19 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Audio for Ancient Greek
Replies: 25
Views: 20254

Re: Audio for Ancient Greek

Has anyone heard/seen? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ancient-Greek-Poetry-Tragedy-Comedy/dp/B00242VUWO/ref=sr_1_18?ie=UTF8&qid=1369953331&sr=8-18&keywords=greek+tragedies It's a reissue of a recording made in 1961, published by Smithsonian Folkways. They have audio samples on their website. Traditional p...
by spiphany
Mon May 13, 2013 7:47 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Audio for Ancient Greek
Replies: 25
Views: 20254

Re: Audio for Ancient Greek

1) The audio files which I have (with Hagel as one of the speakers) I received in 2010; I don't know when they were produced. Possibly 2003.

2) The iota subscript is pronounced in the recordings.
by spiphany
Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:48 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Audio for Ancient Greek
Replies: 25
Views: 20254

Re: Audio for Ancient Greek

Yes Assimil does have good audio, the male is pretty good but, bizarrely, he sounds Germanophonic, which makes no sense since its a French course by a French company. He is. The speaker is Stefan Hagel, an Austrian scholar who has done a lot of work on the pronunciation of classical Greek (he has s...
by spiphany
Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:08 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Audio for Ancient Greek
Replies: 25
Views: 20254

Re: Audio for Ancient Greek

All the recordings that I know about are either oriented towards teaching Attic Greek, or are recitations of texts. How important is the question of availability of audio vs. what dialect is being taught? If audio is really important to you, it might make sense to go with something like Assimil or R...
by spiphany
Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:03 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Greek prefixes - list of
Replies: 14
Views: 7277

Re: Greek prefixes - list of

In the word (phrase?) τὄυνεκα, you would have to say that the article is functioning as a prefix. No, not really, as I understand it. Prefixing is *not* an umbrella term for any combination of words or word parts to make a larger word. With prefixing, you have a word fragment that can't stand alone...
by spiphany
Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:59 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Greek prefixes - list of
Replies: 14
Views: 7277

Re: Greek prefixes - list of

Well no, prepositions aren't the only things used as prefixes. But they do make up a large majority of the ones you will see. If I recall the Reading Greek course has a reasonably good section on word-building (I'm not absolutely certain that this is the source, as I only have a photocopied handout ...
by spiphany
Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:20 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Misconceived Greek Pronunciation?
Replies: 4
Views: 3670

Re: Misconceived Greek Pronunciation?

meaning that tone is used systematically to distinguish lexical meaning. Doesn't Ancient Greek do this, after a fashion? After all, "to go" vs. "to be", interrogative vs. declarative word-meaning, and so on... Not systematically , no. A lot of time the accent doesn't affect meaning at all (this is ...
by spiphany
Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:35 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Seeking Clarification (various examples)
Replies: 10
Views: 5759

Re: Seeking Clarification (various examples)

That's why I said "something that functions as a noun" and not "a noun in the same case as the article" -- there will always be something that belongs with the article, even if it's an infinitive or prepositional phrase that is being used substantively. You couldn't just have αἱ here all by itself, ...
by spiphany
Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:56 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Misconceived Greek Pronunciation?
Replies: 4
Views: 3670

Re: Misconceived Greek Pronunciation?

Phonetics isn't my strength (my ear for these things isn't very good), so I don't have any strong personal convictions on this. And of course there's generally a huge gap between the theory and actually being able to apply it in one's own pronunciation. Some of the details about vowel quality etc. a...
by spiphany
Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:38 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Seeking Clarification (various examples)
Replies: 10
Views: 5759

Re: Seeking Clarification (various examples)

It's not quite true that word order doesn't matter -- the Greeks didn't just randomly throw words together any way they pleased (even if it may seem like that to us sometimes). It's more accurate to say that word order is extremely flexible compared to a language like English. This is because Englis...
by spiphany
Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:31 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Schulz & Griesbach's "Deutsche Sprachlehre fur Ausländer"
Replies: 14
Views: 14754

Re: Schulz & Griesbach's "Deutsche Sprachlehre fur Ausländer

I should respond here, since the recommendation for Schulz and Griesbach probably came from me originally, one way or another. I didn't learn German using it (I found it after I was already fairly fluent in German). I continue to believe that it's a useful textbook for a particular group of self-tau...
by spiphany
Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:54 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Seeking Clarification (various examples)
Replies: 10
Views: 5759

Re: Seeking Clarification (various examples)

τὸν Ὁμήρου ἀδελὸν παιδεύει. τοὺς παρὰ τῳ Ὁμὴρω φίλους λόγων τέχνην ἐπαιδεύσας. τὰ βιβλία τὰ παρὰ τῶν ξένων ἐπαιδευε τοὺς ἐν τῃ ἀγορα ἂνθρωπος, τοὺς Ὁμήρου φίλους . There's one thing all of these examples have in common that you're missing which will mislead you when trying to translate them. I've b...
by spiphany
Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:09 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Attributive vs. Predicate
Replies: 11
Views: 7782

Re: Attributive vs. Predicate

Just so we're clear, Smyth 1150 is talking about a situation where you have two nouns, not a noun (or pronoun) & an adj. So it's not immediately relevant for the issue we were discussing (determining whether an adjective is predicative or attributive). But it's relevant in a larger way to the genera...
by spiphany
Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:44 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Attributive vs. Predicate
Replies: 11
Views: 7782

Re: Attributive vs. Predicate

ὁρῶ σε κρύπτοντα is arguably an indirect statement: I see that you are hiding (verbs of seeing taking a predicate complement rather than an infinitive) I'm honestly not sure how helpful it is to make a strict distinction between predicate and attributive, particularly when you're dealing with partic...
by spiphany
Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:13 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Hansen & Quinn - Appendix
Replies: 3
Views: 2318

Re: Hansen & Quinn - Appendix

I have the more recent 1 vol edition, but don't have access to it right now -- if I recall correctly, the appendices are mostly grammar charts and verb tables and such. I believe they include some forms that aren't covered in the main text (such as the dual). You might try checking the archives of c...
by spiphany
Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:56 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Grammars that are better than Smyth?
Replies: 5
Views: 2601

Re: Grammars that are better than Smyth?

One of my Greek professors (who was trained in Germany) quoted Kühner-Gerth on a regular basis. It's about as standard in Germany as Smyth is here, and is somewhat longer and presumably more thorough (I haven't worked with it much at all). It also dates from around the same time as Smyth, so you may...
by spiphany
Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:20 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: ὅτι or ὅ τι?
Replies: 10
Views: 4883

Re: ὅτι or ὅ τι?

Thanks spiphany and Nate. So where do you guys come down? Are these both ὅτι? Or is either of them ὅ τι? Sorry, I think my post was unclear. I don't have any particular insight into ὅτι versus ὅ τι, perhaps because I've seen the process of relatives turning into conjunctions often enough in various...
by spiphany
Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:12 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Interference with Dialects
Replies: 4
Views: 2356

Re: Interference with Dialects

I would start with one and get comfortable with that (or at least make sure you have a strong grasp of the grammar/forms/vocabulary presented) before starting to jump between dialects. I learned Attic and later started working with epic and drama -- it's quite doable, but there is a learning curve, ...
by spiphany
Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:51 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: ὅτι or ὅ τι?
Replies: 10
Views: 4883

Re: ὅτι or ὅ τι?

But I can't find any place where Smyth discusses sentences like "That he won the competition is great". Non-referenced, gut response: I think this construction is a feature of English syntax but not necessarily of Greek (look up cleft sentences, I'm not sure if this is exactly what it is, but it's ...
by spiphany
Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:51 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Aristotle:ὑγροῦ λευκὴ γίνεται
Replies: 3
Views: 1921

Re: Aristotle:ὑγροῦ λευκὴ γίνεται

In this case ὑγροῦ is not standing by itself, but has an article that goes with it: τοῦ τὴν βαφὴν πεποιηκότος ὑγροῦ Because of the word order, it makes the most sense to read ὑγροῦ as governing the participle πεποιηκότος and its object, which are sandwiched between article and noun. The translation ...
by spiphany
Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:21 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: middle voice
Replies: 7
Views: 5380

Re: middle voice

I don't think I've ever seen mention of "medioactive" in discussions of classical Greek, and I'm afraid I'm having trouble envisioning what an "active-middle" would look like. (I skimmed the article on Latin that you linked to and I'm not sure I immediately understand how the author is using the ter...
by spiphany
Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:51 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Can you recommend me some tools for tracking down words?
Replies: 5
Views: 3432

Re: Can you recommend me some tools for tracking down words?

Couple of questions for you -- You say that you're "starting to learn Greek" -- what does this mean exactly? Are you working through a textbook? How far have you gotten? I ask this because it makes a difference in how I answer you and what knowledge I can assume you already have and what you don't. ...
by spiphany
Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:31 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Attic or Homeric first
Replies: 16
Views: 9822

Re: Attic or Homeric first

If you want to start with Attic, Mastronarde is excellent. He has also some excellent web tutorials to help reinforce some of the grammar in the early chapters. I honestly think you should start with whichever dialect you're most interested in reading. William Annis argues for starting with Homeric ...
by spiphany
Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:43 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Agamemnon of Aeschylus
Replies: 41
Views: 23285

Re: Agamemnon of Aeschylus

1) Tragedy uses a fair amount of vocabulary that you don't see in Attic prose -- when I did prose composition in Germany a couple of years ago the prof kept marking my word choice as "poetic" because most of my reading had been epic and tragedy. You'll see forms that are familiar from reading Homer,...
by spiphany
Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:17 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: ta pros ti
Replies: 20
Views: 10648

Re: ta pros ti

I doubt my notes on the aitia will help you to understand Aristotle's use of ta pros ti . I mentioned my posts because it (partially) shows how I work when trying to interpret philosophical texts. It may be useful to you. It may not. I said ta pros ti is vague, not that it's ambiguous. There's a dif...
by spiphany
Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:54 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: ta pros ti
Replies: 20
Views: 10648

Re: ta pros ti

Hi Junya I've worked a very little bit with Aristotle -- mostly his discussion of aitia (see here ) and bits of the Poetics -- not enough to help you with the meaning of this particular phrase, but here are some thoughts on useful ways to approach Aristotle in general. One of the difficulties is tha...
by spiphany
Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:17 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Theta and Phi
Replies: 6
Views: 5106

Re: Theta and Phi

Up to you. The fricative ("th" and "f") pronunciations are traditional in English-language Greek classrooms. In other words, if you're ever reading ancient Greek in a classroom setting, you probably won't cause any misunderstandings if you use this pronunciation. There is also the advantage (at leas...
by spiphany
Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:49 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Agamemnon of Aeschylus
Replies: 41
Views: 23285

Re: Agamemnon of Aeschylus

My copy of Agamemnon (Denniston/Page commentary) is across the Atlantic right now and having it shipped would be difficult since I don't know which box it's in. Sorry! Otherwise I'd be up for it.

Now if we were talking Antigone, on the other hand...
by spiphany
Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:39 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: The Agamemnon of Aeschylus recorded in Ancient Greek
Replies: 8
Views: 5200

Re: The Agamemnon of Aeschylus recorded in Ancient Greek

Hey, cool! Thanks for the heads-up!
by spiphany
Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:57 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Greek letters: reading without understanding
Replies: 5
Views: 3389

Re: Greek letters: reading without understanding

As far as pronunciation is concerned, Epic and Attic textbooks will probably give you very similar information. There are a few differences, mainly whether the digamma is pronounced or not, but the big differences are in grammar and vocabulary. If you're interested in eventually reading and understa...
by spiphany
Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:45 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Greek letters: reading without understanding
Replies: 5
Views: 3389

Re: Greek letters: reading without understanding

The tutorials on Mastronarde's site should be sufficient for your purposes, if your main goal is to be able to turn the symbols on the page into sounds. You might also look at the first chapter in any standard Greek textbook, these usually offer a good overview on pronunciation. What I found particu...
by spiphany
Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:32 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Aorist Imperative
Replies: 13
Views: 26323

Re: Aorist Imperative

Just to add a bit of background to the other answers -- it's important to distinguish between tense (eg past, present, future) and aspect (eg completed, repeated, one-time, ongoing). Classical Greek, like many languages, conflates these two verb characteristics sometimes. Thus when it's conjugated t...
by spiphany
Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:57 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey book 9 - lines 343-344
Replies: 5
Views: 4141

Re: Odyssey book 9 - lines 343-344

I would say this is tmesis (prefix of a compound verb separated from main part of the verb), or else an adjectival use of σύν, in either case with a sense of "together, in conjunction." --> he seized two men at once One big clue that it's not functioning as a normal preposition is that you don't hav...
by spiphany
Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:33 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Struggling with cases - help please!
Replies: 3
Views: 3499

Re: Struggling with cases - help please!

Prepositions govern a particular case (or cases). That's just the way they work. It's not like the uses of dative/accusative/genitive where the case alone tells you the function of the word in the sentence. That said, there is a tendency for the individual cases to be associated with a particular "c...