Search found 169 matches

by Anthony Appleyard
Wed May 01, 2019 12:36 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Macaronic-ness the other way round
Replies: 0
Views: 83

Macaronic-ness the other way round

A complaint about some Latin written or spoken by the inexpert is that it is "macaronic", i.e. it includes words from the speaker's or writer's vernacular. An example is the word "workmannus", which is found sometimes in old manorial records written in Latin in England. When I was at school in the l...
by Anthony Appleyard
Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:42 am
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: A humorous Latin poem in a newspaper
Replies: 1
Views: 658

A humorous Latin poem in a newspaper

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brexit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Daily_Telegraph The readers' letters page in the Daily Telegraph 19 Feb 2019 included this humorous Latin elegaic poem sent in by Dr. David Butterfield (Queens' College, Cambridge) about the Brexit: Quid sibi vult Brexit? qui Br...
by Anthony Appleyard
Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:53 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: The preposition "af"
Replies: 1
Views: 284

The preposition "af"

The book "The Latin Language" by L.R.Palmer (page 127) says that "Or. 158" by Cicero says that "insuavissima praepositio est "af", quae nunc tantum in accepti tabulis manet ac ne his quidem omnium". What other information is there about this preposition "af"? What did "af" mean?
by Anthony Appleyard
Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:47 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Classical Latin literature
Replies: 1
Views: 351

Classical Latin literature

Is there a list of all literature that is commonly accepted as being Classical Latin literature?
by Anthony Appleyard
Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:57 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Latin for "patrol"
Replies: 2
Views: 400

Latin for "patrol"

For "patrol", the English to Latin Google translater suggests: English meaning: noun: "a person or group of people sent to keep watch over an area, especially a detachment of guards or police" English meaning: verb: "keep watch over (an area) by regularly walking or traveling around or through it." ...
by Anthony Appleyard
Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:02 am
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Latin translation by T.S.Evans of an English poem
Replies: 12
Views: 2115

Re: Latin translation by T.S.Eliot of an English poem

TRANSLATION by T.S.Eliot Fugere ruptis obicibus lacus, fugere lymphae : per cava litorum exsultim et immissis habenis agmine prono equitant liquores, bacchantium cum murmure fluctuum dudum vocantem visere Nerea. per saxa depressasque valles per silvas furit expedite umore torrens amnis: et impetus t...
by Anthony Appleyard
Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:01 am
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Latin translation by T.S.Evans of an English poem
Replies: 12
Views: 2115

Re: Latin translation by T.S.Eliot of an English poem

The title "Lacus Eruptio" was in my source. I did not invent it.
mwh wrote:Yes it’s in Horatian Alcaics, as is immediately clear from the first three or four lines. It should be printed in 4-line stanzas.

And Anthony please correct the absurd heading.
by Anthony Appleyard
Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:06 am
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Latin translation by T.S.Evans of an English poem
Replies: 12
Views: 2115

Re: Latin translation by T.S.Eliot of an English poem

What meter is the Latin translation?
by Anthony Appleyard
Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:11 pm
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Latin translation by T.S.Evans of an English poem
Replies: 12
Views: 2115

Re: Latin translation by T.S.Eliot of an English poem

For a similar real event, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%B6da_fallet

The last verse looks like a storm at sea caused by the same bad weather that had made the lake swell and burst.
by Anthony Appleyard
Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:05 pm
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Latin translation by T.S.Evans of an English poem
Replies: 12
Views: 2115

Latin translation by T.S.Evans of an English poem

by BARRY CORNWALL. The lake has burst! the lake has burst! Down through the chasms the wild waves flee; They gallop along, With a roaring song, Away to the eager awaiting sea! Down through the valleys and over the rocks. And over the forests, the flood runs free; And wherever it dashes, The oaks and...
by Anthony Appleyard
Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:17 pm
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Sabrinae Corolla
Replies: 3
Views: 952

Sabrinae Corolla

I have found a long collection of English poems and translations of them into Latin, called Sabrinae Corolla, at

http://google.cat/books?id=kT8sAAAAYAAJ ... =html_text
by Anthony Appleyard
Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:43 pm
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Autobiography of a goose quill, by T.S.Evans
Replies: 16
Views: 3356

Re: Autobiography of a goose quill, by T.S.Evans

For Martial's epigram, see
https://sententiaeantiquae.com/2015/08/ ... tial-1-50/

Mistullon Taratalla: Martial 1.50

Si tibi Mistyllos cocus, Aemiliane, vocatur,
dicatur quare non Taratalla mihi?

“Aemelianus, if your cook is called Mistullos, why is mine not named Taratalla?”
by Anthony Appleyard
Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:57 am
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Autobiography of a goose quill, by T.S.Evans
Replies: 16
Views: 3356

Re: Autobiography of a goose quill, by T.S.Evans

... I had to look up this strange Taratalla, and was delighted to discover (as no doubt was Evans) that it originates in what must have been a jokey misarticulation of μιστυλλονταραταλλα (τ’ ἄρα τ’ ἄλλα) in the first book of the Iliad (465), where meat is being cut up and spitted for cooking. .... ...
by Anthony Appleyard
Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:37 am
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Autobiography of a goose quill, by T.S.Evans
Replies: 16
Views: 3356

Re: Autobiography of a goose quill, by T.S.Evans

Audiar in Graecis stridere literulis? ... I'll have to find that piece with Ἀριστο - γείτων to see how the couplet turned out. Did the poet mention he was an "excellent neighbor"? See http://www.ascsa.edu.gr/pdf/uploads/hesperia/146623.pdf , starting at its page 356. Πᾶν μέτρον εἰς τελείαν περατοῦτ...
by Anthony Appleyard
Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:36 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Using any verb as a causative-former
Replies: 12
Views: 1707

Re: Using any verb as a causative-former

Another English example of the "I cut him loose" type is:

The plane wreck melted. :: would probably need a foundry.
After many years, the plane wreck melted out of the bottom end of the glacier. :: what melted was not the plane wreck but the ice that it was buried in.
by Anthony Appleyard
Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:31 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Infera Insula
Replies: 2
Views: 954

Re: Infera Insula

For you to peruse: ... Glossarium Antiquitatum Britannicarum has Tanatos Pomponii Melae De situ orbis libri tres has Panotos I saw it suggested that Tanatos is not Goodwin, but Thanet, which stands much higher, and its hills may have been used for beacon fires, and the Welsh for "fire" is "tân", an...
by Anthony Appleyard
Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:48 pm
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Autobiography of a goose quill, by T.S.Evans
Replies: 16
Views: 3356

Re: Autobiography of a goose quill, by T.S.Evans

In "Audiar in Graecis stridere litterulis?", "... in little Greek letters", I feel that not much weight is to be put on *little", as the non-diminutive form "litteris" contains a cretic and so can't be used in the elegaic meter. As regards a crisis caused by a cretic, I found where a Greek elegaic p...
by Anthony Appleyard
Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:39 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Using any verb as a causative-former
Replies: 12
Views: 1707

Re: Using any verb as a causative-former

... "I painted him red", or "I beat her unconscious", or "I returned him alive",... A difference is: When I painted him red, I painted him. When I beat him unconscious, I beat him. When I returned him alive, I returned him. But when I cut him loose, I did not cut him, but I cut only his tether or h...
by Anthony Appleyard
Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:46 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Using any verb as a causative-former
Replies: 12
Views: 1707

How in Latin and Greek would I say compactly "I cut him loose" while mentioning the two ideas of "cutting" and "freeing"/"loose"? Plain "eum solui" or "ελυσα" could have happened by me untying a knot rather than by using a knife.
by Anthony Appleyard
Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:46 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Using any verb as a causative-former
Replies: 12
Views: 1707

Using any verb as a causative-former

In English, many verbs (say "to X") can be used as "to X and thereby cause ...". E.g.: *Ordinary usage: I cut him :: and thereby injured him. *As a causative-former: I cut him loose :: and did not injure him, but cut something else, and thereby made him loose, that is, freed him from being tied up o...
by Anthony Appleyard
Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:24 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Infera Insula
Replies: 2
Views: 954

Infera Insula

It is said that a Roman source mentioned an 'Infera Insula' near Britain. (There is a theory that that island later was flooded by the sea and is now the Goodwin Sands.) Please do you of you know which Roman document mentions this 'Infera Insula'?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodwin_Sands
by Anthony Appleyard
Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:02 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Why do some editors not write allative -δε as a suffix?
Replies: 16
Views: 6895

Re: Why do some editors not write allative -δε as a suffix?

... English bad is a conundrum. ... Unless Crusaders picked up the word in the Middle East, and returning brought it back to Europe along with other exotica. I have seen it suggested that the heraldry word "gules" = `red' was taken from Persian "gol" = `rose'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gules
by Anthony Appleyard
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:58 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Why do some editors not write allative -δε as a suffix?
Replies: 16
Views: 6895

Re: Why do some editors not write allative -δε as a suffix?

About my remark above about Greek '-θι' and Turkish '-de- '/ '-da' despite the Turks being so very far from Greece in classical times :: I have found '-θι' elsewhere much nearer home :: see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etruscan_ ... Morphology :: Etruscan had a locative case ending '-θi'.
by Anthony Appleyard
Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:50 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Where is the brazen sky?
Replies: 8
Views: 3064

Re: Where is the brazen sky?

The botanical identification is obviously wrong (as so often with Linnaean identifications) ... Often in Latin written or translated in modern times, a Linnaean name is used for an organism that there is no classical name for. For example, Harry Potter book 1 in passing mentions a whelk, and the La...
by Anthony Appleyard
Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:45 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: δ 121 special tmesis case
Replies: 39
Views: 27213

Re: δ 121 special tmesis case

For χρυσέῳ ἀνὰ σκήπτρῳ καὶ λίσσετο πάντας Ἀχαιούς with less severe compression of the pronunciation, I am tempted to suggest an older form: χρυσέῳ ἂν σκήπτρῳ καὶ λίσσετο πάντας Ἀχαιούς "an" for "ana" also occurs in ἄμπνυε. Some Homeric lines were likely composed so long ago and passed on by generati...
by Anthony Appleyard
Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:28 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Where is the brazen sky?
Replies: 8
Views: 3064

Re: Where is the brazen sky?

I am in England :: I once saw a brazen sky, or approximately. To quote from my diary:

2017 October
- Mon 15 Oct: I rode to Chester Zoo. Ophelia ([old Caribbean] hurricane) came ... Sky on way out strange and dull with Sahara sand and Portuguese forest fire smoke, sun faint & red.
by Anthony Appleyard
Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:18 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: How many eyes did the Cyclops have?
Replies: 12
Views: 4979

Re: How many eyes did the Cyclops have?

Several threads may have led to Homer's Cyclopses: (1) Human warriors who painted circles round their eyes to look fearsome. (2) Mistaken guess from discovery of prehistoric mammoth / elephant skeletons :: the big front hole where the trunk was attached was mistaken for a single central eye socket. ...
by Anthony Appleyard
Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:32 am
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Autobiography of a goose quill, by T.S.Evans
Replies: 16
Views: 3356

Re: Autobiography of a goose quill, by T.S.Evans

Hi Anthony, ... For that matter, how did you ever find the copy of the "goosequill" from an 1858 Cambridge student newspaper? I tried googling Evans and came up with the book, his biography and not much else. Someone put the newspaper on the internet. I came across it by text-searching for a bit of...
by Anthony Appleyard
Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:47 pm
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Autobiography of a goose quill, by T.S.Evans
Replies: 16
Views: 3356

Autobiography of a goose quill, by T.S.Evans

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Saunders_Evans Google search found this in a .pdf version, as an interpolation in an old periodical called "Eagle". The OCR persistently rendered 'æ' as 're'. This time the printer seems to have preferred 'j' and 'v and 'æ', and to capitalize every line. https:/...
by Anthony Appleyard
Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:56 pm
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Tennyson's Brook
Replies: 14
Views: 2448

Re: Tennyson's Brook

"Well, old Stick-in-the-mud, how's your conk ?" he replied with equal readiness, ly 13004*; ornpuxTi, we lxus xecpa, ; Is that conk as in nasus or as in caput? I have the book. This is (transcribed) "En borborooi steerikte, poos ekheis kara?", (Here, double vowel = long vowel.) What that website se...
by Anthony Appleyard
Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:56 pm
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Tennyson's Brook
Replies: 14
Views: 2448

Re: Tennyson's Brook

Tennyson's English original is at http://www.english-for-students.com/The-Brook.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Saunders_Evans Evans in the 19th century translated it into Latin elegaics. Each English couplet has 15 syllables and became a Latin elegaic couplet, which needed much expansion...
by Anthony Appleyard
Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:39 pm
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Tennyson's Brook
Replies: 14
Views: 2448

Tennyson's Brook

Tennyson's English original is at http://www.english-for-students.com/The-Brook.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Saunders_Evans Evans in the 19th century translated it into Latin elegaics. Each English couplet has 15 syllables and became a Latin elegaic couplet, which needed much expansion ...
by Anthony Appleyard
Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:31 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Erasmian pronunciation and Omicron
Replies: 21
Views: 9325

Re: Erasmian pronunciation and Omicron

The examples that Erasmus (who was Dutch) used for his idea of the Ancient Greek pronunciations of ει and ου, were the Dutch word "ei" = 'egg', and the vowel in the Dutch words "oud" = 'old' and "koud" = 'cold'. Which he somewhat unclearly described as "ut Batavi dicunt ovum" and "ut dicimus senex e...
by Anthony Appleyard
Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:02 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Next steps for an autodidact
Replies: 13
Views: 2718

Re: Next steps for an autodidact

I did not learn Greek in school :: by then, sciences had pushed Greek off the timetable. When I learned Greek, it was much later, self-taught at home. I started with a textbook of Homeric Greek :: as a result, when I write in Greek, Homericisms abound, including a habit of inserting all the digammas...
by Anthony Appleyard
Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:52 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: The Origin of words like, "CTIMINE"
Replies: 12
Views: 2181

Re: The Origin of words like, "CTIMINE"

I can pronounce all the abovementioned initial consonant clusters easily.
by Anthony Appleyard
Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:58 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Huh? First *four* declensions?
Replies: 5
Views: 1598

Re: Huh? First *four* declensions?

Many educational and technical works were written in Latin, as was the Eton Greek Grammar (and Latin Grammar ). This custom continued into the 19th century as Latin was taught to virtually all students, thereby making it possible to disseminate knowledge to the educated communities of Europe, regar...
by Anthony Appleyard
Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:31 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Huh? First *four* declensions?
Replies: 5
Views: 1598

Re: Huh? First *four* declensions?

The introduction to the Eton Grammar says "literally translated by ... Routledge". Does that mean that this book was originally written as a book to teach Greek to Latin-speakers? Its ten declensions are: (1) masc., e.g. [tami'as] = "steward", [kri'te_s] = "judge" (2) fem., e.g. [mou^sa] = "song", [...
by Anthony Appleyard
Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:57 am
Forum: The Agora
Topic: What's the weather today? (Latine)
Replies: 1085
Views: 410837

Re: What's the weather today? (Latine)

Et nunc est magnus ignis ferus super colle qui dicitur Saddleworth Moor, terra nam est siccissima, et possum olfacere eius fumum prope Mamucii aeroporto. Et igni-vigiles laborant dure in monte in magno calore. Et cinis huius ignis cadunt in lata regione, et nonnulli de eo dixerunt "instar Pompeiorum".
by Anthony Appleyard
Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:22 pm
Forum: The Agora
Topic: What's the weather today? (Latine)
Replies: 1085
Views: 410837

Re: What's the weather today? (Latine)

Hic in Mamucio in Anglia calidissimum est langopere :: calidius quam bonum sit. Non est spes pluvii mox. Debeo ire in domo in camera superiore, duobus fenestris apertis, ut perflet ventum - sed non est ventum. Folia arborum non moverunt. Herba mea flava est in horto. Non est nubes, sed "cirrus aviat...
by Anthony Appleyard
Wed May 30, 2018 8:47 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Jam yesterday and jam tomorrow but never jam today
Replies: 1
Views: 927

Jam yesterday and jam tomorrow but never jam today

I always thought that this expression in "Alice in Wonderland" was merely childish storybook stuff and nothing to do with anything learned. But recently I found on the Web that Lewis Carroll when writing "Alice in Wonderland" did not invent this expression, but took it from an old Latin grammar that...