Search found 48 matches

by refe
Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:35 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Septuagint Vocabulary
Replies: 3
Views: 4454

Re: Septuagint Vocabulary

I don't have the specific answers to those questions but I can tell you that if you can read the NT in Greek proficiently, you can read the Septuagint. I agree - in fact, the majority of the Septuagint is probably easier because the word order is less complex (at least, that's my observation.) If y...
by refe
Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:05 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Easy Selections from Plato
Replies: 6
Views: 2235

Re: Easy Selections from Plato

Been doing some Plato myself, just a little bit to get a breather from Sophocles. Plato is something of a breather for me from the Apostolic Fathers, although calling it a "breather" would be more than a little misleading in my case! The AF texts are right in my wheelhouse when it comes to Greek - ...
by refe
Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:01 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Easy Selections from Plato
Replies: 6
Views: 2235

Re: Easy Selections from Plato

Thanks guys! Not sure why that gave me so much trouble, as it seems so simple now. I think it was just the word order - specifically where πολλὰ is placed in the sentence. I'm used to Koine word order which probably would have put πολλὰ in between ἤδη and ἔτη unless I'm mistaken.
by refe
Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:04 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Easy Selections from Plato
Replies: 6
Views: 2235

Easy Selections from Plato

I'm only 2 sentences into Easy Selections from Plato by Arthur Sidgewick and I already need some help ;): ἐμοῦ γὰρ πολλοὶ κατήγοροι γεγόνασι πρὸς ὑμᾶς καὶ πάλαι πολλὰ ἤδη ἔτη καὶ οὐδὲν ἀληθὲς λέγοντες Does this read something like "for many accusations have come against me before you even not very l...
by refe
Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:19 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Looking NT Greek help
Replies: 2
Views: 2543

Re: Looking NT Greek help

I would recommend that you get yourself the Basics of Biblical Greek workbook (it shouldn't cost more than $15 used) and work all the way through it. It's a lot easier to learn from than many of the older intro grammars. I've got a list of suggested resources here that may or may not help: http://ww...
by refe
Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:46 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Apostolic Fathers online readers
Replies: 0
Views: 2636

Apostolic Fathers online readers

I've been (slowly) working on a series of online readers for the Apostolic Fathers collection, starting with the letters of Ignatius. I have 2 completed so far with a 3rd in development. I'm hoping that these will help people get into the AF by easing them into the vocabulary. There is a lot of voca...
by refe
Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:12 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: ἰσχύω
Replies: 2
Views: 2698

Re: ἰσχύω

It does seem a bit confusing, but fortunately Mounce is right and the form of verbs like ἰσχύω are very regular, so the 'σα' tense formative makes the aorist form easy to spot. There is a similar 'recognition' issue with verbs that take vocalic reduplication, where at first it can be hard to tell th...
by refe
Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:37 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Transcribe Real Greek Papyri
Replies: 0
Views: 1031

Transcribe Real Greek Papyri

This made my day.

http://www.greekingout.com/2011/07/tran ... al-papyri/

Sitting in front of my computer and squinting at these papyri truly is my idea of a good time. Already found some cool stuff - MARTURION in one fragment, and KATA DUNAITO in another. Awesome!
by refe
Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:51 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Homeric vs Koine study??
Replies: 3
Views: 4063

Re: Homeric vs Koine study??

I think Attic is very valuable for the study of the NT, LXX, intertestamental, and early Christian lit. Homeric Greek certainly wouldn't hurt, but I don't think you'll find much that is of immediate value. Of course, if you learn Homer you can read.... Homer(!) That's valuable in and of itself, alth...
by refe
Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:13 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Pedagogy of contract verbs
Replies: 11
Views: 6344

Re: Pedagogy of contract verbs

Yes, memory work is part of any foreign language. Yes, there are patterns to how languages work. But there is no need to burden students with this at the beginning. It is good enough for them to know that ὁρᾷ is 3rd person singular present tense indicative. Or rather that the one person associated ...
by refe
Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:45 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Pedagogy of contract verbs
Replies: 11
Views: 6344

Re: Pedagogy of contract verbs

This is one of the strengths of Mounce's koine intro grammar - he goes into great detail on the morphology of Greek verbs, as well as the rules that govern contractions. The contractions aren't all the same as in Attic, but it might still be helpful if anyone is having trouble keeping track of what'...
by refe
Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:41 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: question about LXX Exodus 20:9
Replies: 4
Views: 3687

Re: question about LXX Exodus 20:9

... and it manages to look just like a dative in the process! That's why I love the morphology-heavy approach that Mounce takes to the verbal system. If you know the rules of contraction you can usually figure out where a given verb is coming from (although I had to look this one in Perseus up to ma...
by refe
Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:38 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Vocabulary Lists for the Apostolic Fathers
Replies: 4
Views: 2064

Re: Vocabulary Lists for the Apostolic Fathers

Just a quick update for anyone that might be interested. I've taken the vocabulary list and turned it into a full-fledged (albeit technologically basic) online reader for the letter of Ignatius to the Magnesians. I've started Ignatius to the Romans as well, but I've only got a chapter or two so far....
by refe
Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:14 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: question about LXX Exodus 20:9
Replies: 4
Views: 3687

Re: question about LXX Exodus 20:9

κατα Perseus:

ἐργᾷ verb 2nd sg fut ind mp attic epic contr

It's a weird looking form but actually very regular:
ἐργαζομαι -> ἐργασεσαι -> ἐργαεαι -> ἐργᾷ

"Six days you will work, and you will do all your work."
by refe
Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:39 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Deponent Verbs?
Replies: 3
Views: 6956

Deponent Verbs?

Mounce defines deponents this way in Basics of Biblical Greek: “This is a verb that is middle or passive in form but active in meaning. Its form is always middle or passive, but its meaning is always active. It can never have a passive meaning.” However, it seems like a better much definition for de...
by refe
Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:51 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: New Basics of Biblical Greek software?
Replies: 3
Views: 4447

New Basics of Biblical Greek software?

I heard from a professor I've been meeting with recently that Mounce is working on a new version of Basics of Biblical Greek that will turn it into something of an online software system. Has anyone here heard anything about that? Totally hearsay at this point, although from a reliable source in thi...
by refe
Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:37 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Alternatives to Basics of Biblical Greek
Replies: 9
Views: 11514

Re: Alternatives to Basics of Biblical Greek

There is a brand-new entry into the 'Alternatives to Basics of Biblical Greek' category by Stanley Porter and a few others published late 2010. It is called Fundamentals of New Testament Greek and from the material I've read it seeks to be a much more comprehensive introduction than Mounce or any of...
by refe
Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:29 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Vocabulary Lists for the Apostolic Fathers
Replies: 4
Views: 2064

Re: Vocabulary Lists for the Apostolic Fathers

The full list for Ignatius to the Magnesians is up now, along with the greeting and 1st chapter of Ignatius to the Romans.
by refe
Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:30 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Beginning to Think in Greek
Replies: 0
Views: 1403

Beginning to Think in Greek

Here is a great little passage from CS Lewis on thinking in Greek: The great gain was that I very soon became able to understand a great deal without (even mentally) translating it; I was beginning to think in Greek. That is the real Rubicon to cross in learning any language. Those in whom the Greek...
by refe
Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:21 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: _Rouse's Greek Boy_: Meaning of καί?
Replies: 3
Views: 2174

Re: _Rouse's Greek Boy_: Meaning of καί?

It seems to me that it should be δὲ in that sentence not καὶ to complete the μεν...δὲ construction. Still, the Middle Liddell supports the 'as' function: III. after words implying sameness or likeness, καί must be rendered by ' as ', like Lat. atque or ac after aeque, perinde, simul, γνώμῃσι ὁμοίῃσι...
by refe
Tue May 31, 2011 9:45 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Online reader for Ignatius
Replies: 1
Views: 936

Online reader for Ignatius

I'm putting together a very low-tech online reader for the letters of Ignatius, starting with Ignatius to the Magnesians. It is very still very early in it's development and it is far from pretty at this point, but before going to much further I wanted to get some feedback. I've opted to put the run...
by refe
Thu May 26, 2011 8:32 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Methods for learning Greek
Replies: 66
Views: 51100

Re: Methods for learning Greek

Also, learning to write in Greek greatly enhances your acquisition of the language. I don't think it's a waste of time at all, in fact I believe that it is one of the most valuable skills a student of Greek (or any 'dead' language) can engage in. I'm interesting in reading , yes, but reading with un...
by refe
Sun May 22, 2011 9:20 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Koine good for Attic?
Replies: 4
Views: 3143

Re: Koine good for Attic?

I think Attic is more worthwhile for Koine than the other way around. Koine relaxes the rules of Attic considerably, loses some of the nuance and becomes much more explicit in how it communicates an idea. For that reason I think it might end up introducing some 'bad habits' into your Attic grammar, ...
by refe
Fri May 20, 2011 9:16 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Mark 13:32
Replies: 2
Views: 2749

Re: Mark 13:32

"The Bible guarantees it!"
by refe
Fri May 20, 2011 8:56 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: January is Greek Prose Composition Month!
Replies: 100
Views: 22731

Re: June is Greek Prose Composition Month!

I am still working through Sidgewick's 1st Greek Writer so I'm not sure I'll be up for the task this time around. I'm only on exercise 10! Definitely looking to improve my composition skills though.
by refe
Wed May 18, 2011 5:40 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: which is the best book to study ancient greek?
Replies: 18
Views: 27895

Re: which is the best book to study ancient greek?

This thread is old, but I wanted to chime in. I studied Greek using Mounce's Basics of Biblical Greek, and now I am backtracking to the older dialects to get a more complete understanding of the language as a whole. I am looking very closely at Intensive Greek by Hansen and Quinn, but I am learning ...
by refe
Sun May 15, 2011 3:39 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Companion Text book W/BBG?
Replies: 6
Views: 5410

Re: Companion Text book W/BBG?

Missing English-Greek exercises along with much of the information you would need to complete such exercises! I just started browsing through Machen at Markos suggestion, and it definitely goes into much more detail right off the bat on some of the issues, like accenting, that seem very tedious in t...
by refe
Wed May 11, 2011 4:22 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Not happy about the iota subscript
Replies: 24
Views: 13804

Re: Not happy about the iota subscript

Greek seems to be subject to this kind of meddling more than most languages, perhaps because of the sheer number of accents, subscripts, morphological changes, etc. I am always a bit skeptical when I read introductory grammars, for instance, because they often present things like the iota subscript ...
by refe
Tue May 03, 2011 3:09 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: EXWMEN in Ignatius to the Magnesians
Replies: 3
Views: 1312

Re: EXWMEN in Ignatius to the Magnesians

ἐυχαριστω συ, ω Μαρκε! οὐκ οἶδα περὶ "ἔχω." καὶ ἔγω νομίζω τὸν Ἰγνάτιον καλον γραφεά ειναι. ἀγάπω τᾶς ἐπιστολας αὐτοῦ. "Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ τοῦ διὰ παντὸς ἡμῶν ζῆν" καλοί λογοί εἴσιν!
by refe
Mon May 02, 2011 7:58 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: EXWMEN in Ignatius to the Magnesians
Replies: 3
Views: 1312

EXWMEN in Ignatius to the Magnesians

Maybe someone here can help me with this. I am translating Ignatius to the Magnesians from the Apostolic Fathers collection, and there is a use of ἔχωμεν that I am unfamiliar with. Here is the phrase from Chapter 5: ἐὰν μὴ αὐθαιρέτως ἔχωμεν τὸ ἀποθανεῖν εἰς τὸ αὐτοῦ πάθος, τὸ ζῆν αὐτοῦ ἔστιν ἐν ἡμῖν...
by refe
Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:50 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Vocabulary Lists for the Apostolic Fathers
Replies: 4
Views: 2064

Re: Vocabulary Lists for the Apostolic Fathers

I completely agree with whoever said that. If you attempt to translate first you will spend all your time in the lexicon and it really breaks up the flow of the text. If you try to get the vocab down ahead of time though, you will only need to occasionally glance at your list when you can't remember...
by refe
Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:03 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Correct use of came v went
Replies: 2
Views: 3020

Re: Correct use of came v went

Due to the way that erxomai is used in Greek, it's safe to assume that the perception of coming and going being distinct concepts was probably not as pronounced as it might be in English. As the previous commenter has already said, that leaves context to be the guide (as it always is!)
by refe
Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:57 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Alternatives to Basics of Biblical Greek
Replies: 9
Views: 11514

Re: Alternatives to Basics of Biblical Greek

I really like the idea of using an Attic textbook like Athaenaze side by side with a Koine book like Croy. That would be confusing for independent learners such as myself trying to learn outside the classroom, but greatly helpful with the guidance of a good teacher. Kudos to you for attempting to cr...
by refe
Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:21 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Best place to start learning Latin?
Replies: 11
Views: 8114

Re: Best place to start learning Latin?

I first studied Greek using Mounce and while I loved getting into the reading right away, I have always wished that he had spent more time building a stronger foundation in the language first. Now that I am about to embark on another ancient language I'm really not sure which route (deductive/induct...
by refe
Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:16 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Pharr Discussions By Chapter
Replies: 9
Views: 19737

Re: Pharr Discussions By Chapter

Great resource, thank you! I will be beginning my trek through Pharr soon and I will certainly remember to come back here when I do.

Has anyone updated these since '07 when they were first posted? I'm sure there have been many more discussions since then.
by refe
Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:14 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Diogenes software!!!
Replies: 27
Views: 27871

Re: Diogenes software!!!

What is the benefit of using Diogenes over Perseus? Speed?
by refe
Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:01 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Vocabulary Lists for the Apostolic Fathers
Replies: 4
Views: 2064

Vocabulary Lists for the Apostolic Fathers

I am putting together vocabulary lists of rarer words in the Apostolic Fathers collection (specifically the Michael Holmes 3rd edition) as I translate through them. You can find all of these words in Perseus, but I wanted the definitions from BDAG wherever possible, as it is the lexicon best suited ...
by refe
Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:13 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Alternatives to Basics of Biblical Greek
Replies: 9
Views: 11514

Alternatives to Basics of Biblical Greek

Mounce's BBG is far and away the most popular textbook in seminaries today. And while I used it successfully in my independent studies of Greek, the deeper I go into my continuing studies of the language the more I realize that BBG is not able to adequately prepare students to really dig into Greek....
by refe
Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:45 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: "Intermediate" Greek Questions
Replies: 6
Views: 6209

Re: "Intermediate" Greek Questions

I would just like to say that the Lust & Eynikel LXX lexicon is wonderful, but $80 is very steep. Mine came in small paperback printings, the first covering A-I and the second K-Omega. The difference in quality between these and BDAG is incredible, but I suppose the LXX is a smaller market...
by refe
Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:52 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Best place to start learning Latin?
Replies: 11
Views: 8114

Re: Best place to start learning Latin?

Thanks everybody, there is a lot of helpful stuff packed into your answers. I will probably start with the two free textbooks offered here and move on from that point. And Corolus, I appreciate the link to easy Latin texts. When learning Greek I tried to spend at least as much time reading actual Gr...