Search found 1911 matches

by Paul Derouda
Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:04 am
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: Nile shipwreck discovery proves Herodotus right
Replies: 10
Views: 582

Re: Nile shipwreck discovery proves Herodotus right

So the same Herodotus who is apparently able to give a detailed description of the building plan of an Egyptian river boat, misrepresents the measures of a city wall by a factor of 10? It doesn't seem convincing. I don't necessarily think he's lying about the wall, some boastful Babylionian probabl...
by Paul Derouda
Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:33 am
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: Nile shipwreck discovery proves Herodotus right
Replies: 10
Views: 582

Re: Nile shipwreck discovery proves Herodotus right

Thanks for the links - I read the first one, not knowing Dutch. ;) The concluding remarks deserve to quoted: In the light of this, all attempts to save Herodotus’ description of the city as authentic are doomed. The fantastic description of its customs and habits suggests a similar conclusion. This ...
by Paul Derouda
Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:16 pm
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: Nile shipwreck discovery proves Herodotus right
Replies: 10
Views: 582

Re: Nile shipwreck discovery proves Herodotus right

How can one be sure of such a thing? :) I'll find the precise examples when I have more time, but I don't think he ever positively claims that he went to Babylon. He does give the impression that he did, but even if he never was there (which I think is possible but perhaps not likely), that wouldn't...
by Paul Derouda
Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:43 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Meno 89e
Replies: 2
Views: 147

Re: Meno 89e

This kind of question is impossible to answer if we don't have more context.
by Paul Derouda
Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:50 pm
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: Nile shipwreck discovery proves Herodotus right
Replies: 10
Views: 582

Re: Nile shipwreck discovery proves Herodotus right

This is really quite interesting. I wish I could find a slightly more detailed discussion of this find, preferably with good illustrations, without actually reading the whole monograph! I'm not really sure what exactly is so special about this ship as compared to other ships of this era, but I'd lik...
by Paul Derouda
Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:01 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: The Cambridge Grammar of Classical Greek
Replies: 14
Views: 2689

Re: The Cambridge Grammar of Classical Greek

One shouldn't judge a book by its cover, but oh my that's horrible! It reminds me of all those generic covers you see for print-on-demand books. But I'm still anxious to get to read that book and might even get a copy, especially as it's not that expensive after all. I've read book on Greek verbs by...
by Paul Derouda
Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:27 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: diachronic syllabificiation of ἐξακολουθῶ
Replies: 16
Views: 1255

Re: diachronic syllabificiation of ἐξακολουθῶ

I have no idea, just asking: might it be possible that Smyth is reflecting spelling conventions (i.e. ways syllables are separated in case of line break etc.)?
by Paul Derouda
Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:44 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Od. 15, 42
Replies: 2
Views: 325

Re: Od. 15, 42

Hello and welcome! When asking this sort of question, it would be nice to give some context, at least by copy-pasting the text in question at some length. So here we have the end of a lengthy speech delivered by Athena to Telemachus: αὐτὰρ ἐπὴν πρώτην ἀκτὴν Ἰθάκης ἀφίκηαι, νῆα μὲν ἐς πόλιν ὀτρῦναι κ...
by Paul Derouda
Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:38 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Learning poetry
Replies: 10
Views: 432

Re: Learning poetry

I would definitely recommend Homer. Homer is a lot easier than any tragedy. Homer is the foundation of pretty much all classical Greek literature, so whatever you're reading, you'll probably profit from having read Homer before. And once you have some Homer under your belt, tragedy will be much easi...
by Paul Derouda
Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:18 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plural of modesty?
Replies: 2
Views: 266

Re: Plural of modesty?

Thanks, I'm going to check that out!
by Paul Derouda
Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:16 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Translation or translation?
Replies: 25
Views: 1399

Re: Translation or translation?

Of course I can accept that you prefer to translate in the way you do. I have always argued for plurality. I'll give you that - you have indeed always argued for plurality, defending a minority view valiantly yet politely, even when the cause seems lost. :wink: What bothers me with Wilson is her wa...
by Paul Derouda
Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:26 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Translation or translation?
Replies: 25
Views: 1399

Re: Translation or translation?

Her view on slavery is not a whim but a considered view shared by other scholars. I have the feeling that you haven't even read what I have written. No one disagrees with her views on slavery (that "handmaids" are actually slaves, that slavery is not a nice thing etc.). What I disagree with are her...
by Paul Derouda
Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:41 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Translation or translation?
Replies: 25
Views: 1399

Re: Translation or translation?

On slavery I think we can stress too much the importance of her terminology in her overall scheme. She simply wants to jolt people away from the Downton Abbey conception of maids and housekeepers and ladies in waiting. But don't you see that the relationship between servants and masters is idealize...
by Paul Derouda
Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:19 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Translation or translation?
Replies: 25
Views: 1399

Re: Translation or translation?

I think that Hannink is a welcome counterblast to this rather fixed view of the role of the translator. A literal approach may have its place in the classroom (although Hannink would now doubt this) but it has no place in a literary project. I think you're blurring the distinction between literal a...
by Paul Derouda
Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:39 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plural of modesty?
Replies: 2
Views: 266

Plural of modesty?

There has been some discussion recently on the use of the plural instead of the singular in the first person. Hylander quoted Smyth, according to which there is a sort of "plural of modesty" in Greek. 1008. Plural of Modesty.—A speaker in referring to himself may use the first person plural as a mod...
by Paul Derouda
Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:55 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: παιδες
Replies: 2
Views: 190

Re: παιδες

Hello!

They are two different words. παίδες is plural of παῖς, παιδίον is a diminutive (neuter) whose plural is παιδία.
by Paul Derouda
Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:03 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Found this a-Musing
Replies: 4
Views: 787

Re: Found this a-Musing

Hmm, where and when did the muses get their names actually? Without checking, I don’t think it was in Hesiod either - and does Hesiod even specify a number? The 9 books of Herodotus were each named after a muse, but I believe that that, along with the book division, dates from Hellenistic times.
by Paul Derouda
Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:47 am
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: Sumerian
Replies: 3
Views: 415

Re: Sumerian

“The recovery of the past represents a sheer enrichment of human thought,” he wrote in the foreword to “In the World of Sumer,” Kramer’s 1986 autobiography. “It is a sort of time travel in which, unlike in science fiction in which we encounter generally pitiful creations of an ethnocentric imaginat...
by Paul Derouda
Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:10 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Lysis 219e and Hemlock
Replies: 36
Views: 17413

Re: Lysis 219e and Hemlock

A collegue pointed this out to me, actually. I didn’t have the time to check it out yet. I don’t know which one is more ridiculous - to call an acute poisoning with an agent that blocks neuromuscular junctions a ”polyneuropathy”, as is done in the article that was the original subject of this thread...
by Paul Derouda
Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:54 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Ordering books online
Replies: 8
Views: 636

Re: Ordering books online

Thanks. I think I'll try Blackwell next time. I was a happy customer at Amazon for many years. Although they do seem to take over everything and I have read some reports that they are not treating their workers very well, it's not so much for "ideological" grounds that I'm trying to avoid them as fo...
by Paul Derouda
Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:04 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Review of West's Odyssey
Replies: 11
Views: 1199

Re: Review of West's Odyssey

Perhaps it will be useful to quote West's reply to Nagy's review of his Iliad here. (http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2001/2001-09-06.html) Even without these fuller explanations, however, my two critics might have taken my point (to which they give short shrift) that when Didymus reports the reading of Ari...
by Paul Derouda
Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:36 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Ordering books online
Replies: 8
Views: 636

Ordering books online

Where do you get your books (in Europe)? For over a decade, I have mostly ordered my new books from Amazon. For the last couple of years, however, their packaging quality has collapsed, and more often than not my books are bruised when they arrive. They do take returns, but it requires some effort, ...
by Paul Derouda
Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:11 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Review of West's Odyssey
Replies: 11
Views: 1199

Re: Review of West's Odyssey

While West's restorations aren't quite as disturbing as, for example, Fick's digammas, perhaps indeed we would be better without them. Whether they are correct or not, it's true that they are rather subjective. The reviewers assert that "To be blunt, the work of Milman Parry makes too little impact ...
by Paul Derouda
Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:48 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Hdt.2.6.3 κατακεχύαται plural?, & function of τοιόσδε τις?
Replies: 15
Views: 972

Re: Hdt.2.6.3 κατακεχύαται plural?, & function of τοιόσδε τις?

One more thing about whether Herodotus' native speech was Doric or Ionian. Herodotus seem especially interested about Ionians and their dialects, and he clearly knows a great deal about them. I haven't decided whether this means that he was a native Ionian, but I think it's worth noting. Here's 1.14...
by Paul Derouda
Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:23 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: An extra τῷ
Replies: 6
Views: 585

Re: An extra τῷ

[The sentence appears to be made-up Greek. In real Greek ὁ Ἀλέξανδρος would not come within the ἐπεὶ clause, since he is also the subject of the main clause.] So are you saying that in real Greek, it would go: Ἐπεὶ οὖν ἐν τῷ πολέμῳ τῷ ἐπὶ τοὺς Πέρσας νίκην ἒσχεν, ἐκέλευσε ὁ Ἀλέξανδρος τοὺς στρατιώτ...
by Paul Derouda
Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:16 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: First post
Replies: 5
Views: 486

Re: First post

Welcome! I see that I've been mentioned here. Here's a link to the thread in question: https://www.textkit.com/greek-latin-forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=68309#p197989. To reiterate my point in short, I didn't do the English to Greek translations in Pharr, and wouldn't recommend them. The rest is more u...
by Paul Derouda
Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:59 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Hdt.2.6.3 κατακεχύαται plural?, & function of τοιόσδε τις?
Replies: 15
Views: 972

Re: Hdt.2.6.3 κατακεχύαται plural?, & function of τοιόσδε τις?

But I wonder whether forms in -αται, -ατο in Thucydides might be Ionicisms, like -σσ- where Attic has -ττ-. Until Thucydides, prose history was an Ionic genre. Herodotus chose to write in Ionic for that reason, even though his native speech was probably Doric and he was writing largely for an Athen...
by Paul Derouda
Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:47 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey 7, Alcinous' offer to Odysseus
Replies: 13
Views: 1642

Re: Odyssey 7, Alcinous' offer to Odysseus

I think Odysseus’ parting words to Nausicaa are a reference to his first words to her: when he first saw her and talked to her, he wondered if she was a god. Now that he is saying goodbye, he promises (a bit humorously, I think) to continue addressing her like a god even in his home land. As to why ...
by Paul Derouda
Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:37 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey 7, Alcinous' offer to Odysseus
Replies: 13
Views: 1642

Re: Odyssey 7, Alcinous' offer to Odysseus

Of course, it can be argued that these female characters are presented to show Odysseus' determination - he wants to go home, and nothing can stop or divert him. Likewise, they heighten Penelope's value in contrast.
by Paul Derouda
Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:13 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey 7, Alcinous' offer to Odysseus
Replies: 13
Views: 1642

Re: Odyssey 7, Alcinous' offer to Odysseus

There's one thing that those who claim that the Odyssey poet was a woman have completely missed. I don't know if modern feminist critics have noticed this. Although the Odyssey has interesting, varied and even psychologically credible female characters, the way some of them are presented (or rather,...
by Paul Derouda
Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:01 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Herodotus 3.53 and the sematics of διδαχθεῖσα
Replies: 5
Views: 814

Re: Herodotus 3.53 and the sematics of διδαχθεῖσα

As for Herodotus not giving the name of the daughter: that's more difficult to interpret. The thing is that Herodotus has a way of voluntarily withholding information if he sees fit. For example, a Green & Yellow Cambridge commentary on a later book (I forget which book, and which passage) argues ve...
by Paul Derouda
Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:49 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Herodotus 3.53 and the sematics of διδαχθεῖσα
Replies: 5
Views: 814

Re: Herodotus 3.53 and the sematics of διδαχθεῖσα

Thanks for your opinions, that's what my first instinct was as well. I don't think Herodotus ever talks about the Seven Sages, and I don't think Legrand means literally that. I don't believe Legrand is being humorous here. What he means, I think, is that already in Herodotus' time a number of maxims...
by Paul Derouda
Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:54 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Herodotus 3.53 and the sematics of διδαχθεῖσα
Replies: 5
Views: 814

Herodotus 3.53 and the sematics of διδαχθεῖσα

3.53.1 ἐπεὶ δὲ τοῦ χρόνου προβαίνοντος ὅ τε Περίανδρος παρηβήκεε καὶ συνεγινώσκετο ἑωυτῷ οὐκέτι εἶναι δυνατὸς τὰ πρήγματα ἐπορᾶν τε καὶ διέπειν, πέμψας ἐς τὴν Κέρκυραν ἀπεκάλεε τὸν Λυκόφρονα ἐπὶ τὴν τυραννίδα· ἐν γὰρ δὴ τῷ πρεσβυτέρῳ τῶν παίδων οὔκων ἐνώρα, ἀλλά οἱ κατεφαίνετο εἶναι νωθέστερος. 3.5...
by Paul Derouda
Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:33 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey 7, Alcinous' offer to Odysseus
Replies: 13
Views: 1642

Re: Odyssey 7, Alcinous' offer to Odysseus

This is indeed psychologically not very convincing. Sure, mores on Scheria are different from other places, but I think this is to show how impressive Odysseus must seem to the Phaeacians. I'm sure analytical and other critics have seen all sorts of problems here. Anyway, I think the main point is t...
by Paul Derouda
Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:15 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Mimnermus Fr. 10
Replies: 10
Views: 1173

Re: Mimnermus Fr. 10

We've actually discussed the semantics of the word ἁρπαλέος in our mail group, in the context of Mimnermus 1: τίς δὲ βίος, τί δὲ τερπνὸν ἄτερ χρυσῆς Ἀφροδίτης; τεθναίην, ὅτε μοι μηκέτι ταῦτα μέλοι, κρυπταδίη φιλότης καὶ μείλιχα δῶρα καὶ εὐνή, οἷ' ἥβης ἄνθεα γίγνεται ἁρπαλέα ἀνδράσιν ἠδὲ γυναιξίν· ἐπ...
by Paul Derouda
Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:52 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Silent Expurgation
Replies: 17
Views: 2323

Re: Silent Expurgation

I essentially agree with most of what Hylander says here. What I meant is that writing down for the first time an epic like the Iliad with the writing mediums of the time must have been a difficult and time consuming enterprise. While we will never be able tell with certitude how exactly it was redu...
by Paul Derouda
Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:14 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Mimnermus Fr. 10
Replies: 10
Views: 1173

Re: Mimnermus Fr. 10

What I find interesting here are the Aithiopians in the east . Africa was in the south, and in general Aithiopians (with certitude at least from Herodotus onwards) referers to Black Africans. Does this refer to Indians? In the Odyssey, Aithiopians are divided in two, some in the east and some in the...
by Paul Derouda
Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:07 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Mimnermus Fr. 10
Replies: 10
Views: 1173

Re: Mimnermus Fr. 10

εὕδονθ’ ἁρπαλέως "sleeping greedily", i.e. eagerly. Shining all day is a lot of work, so rest is welcome afterwards.
by Paul Derouda
Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:59 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Silent Expurgation
Replies: 17
Views: 2323

Re: Silent Expurgation

I agree with Hylander that, first thing, it's a good idea to get acquainted with the oral composition theory if you want to understand Homer. I suppose that reading my posts one might get the impression that I'm dismissing the whole oral theory, but actually it's rather that I take it for granted. M...
by Paul Derouda
Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:48 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey 6: 160-169
Replies: 6
Views: 1372

Re: Odyssey 6: 160-169

The connection to the tree under which Leto gave birth seems obvious, but surely the poem doesn't mean to imply that Odysseus is older than Apollo and Artemis? He can't mean the same actual tree, I mean. I'd rather think that at the poem's time there would have been some old sacred palm tree at a cu...