Search found 1069 matches

by pster
Sun Dec 20, 2015 4:32 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: πατήρ long alpha?
Replies: 5
Views: 2749

Re: πατήρ long alpha?

Yes, very helpful, thanks! I'm sure you're correct, but I'm surprised. Why doesn't Mastronarde indicate it on his paradigms? He does indicate short for the accusative endings. http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~ancgreek/paradigmsU/paradigms_U.html And Smyth doesn't indicate it either in Section 262. http...
by pster
Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:13 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: πατήρ long alpha?
Replies: 5
Views: 2749

πατήρ long alpha?

I'm a bit out of practice. Is the alpha in the root of πατήρ long? And for the other cases, long also?

Thanks in advance
by pster
Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:25 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Crito as a Story?
Replies: 13
Views: 4605

Re: Crito as a Story?

The Platonic dialogues fall into different groups. In the early dialogues we get a Socrates that is starkly different from the one found in the middle dialogues. He is exclusively concerned with moral philosophy, has no over arching theory, and proceeds by the elenchus. And most of the early dialogu...
by pster
Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:22 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: D'Ooge vs. Wheelock: amaverimus
Replies: 3
Views: 2220

D'Ooge vs. Wheelock: amaverimus

For the perfect subjunctive active amaverimus, D'Ooge makes the i short, while Wheelock makes it long. This is just one difference in this vicinity. Who is correct?
by pster
Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:21 am
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Textkit slow for me
Replies: 0
Views: 2715

Textkit slow for me

Every click on textkit takes a minute or more to process. I suspect that it is because of my temporary internet connection situation. But it is curious that it is only textkit that behaves this way and not other forums. Jeff, can you adjust some parameter or another for me? :D
by pster
Sat Feb 15, 2014 2:15 pm
Forum: Latin For Beginners by D'Ooge
Topic: How many versions of D'Ooge?
Replies: 2
Views: 4580

How many versions of D'Ooge?

I have a Super Review reprint of D'Ooge that seems quite different from the one online here: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/18251/18251-h/index.html#pagev How many versions of D'Ooge are there? Can anybody fill me in on the history? I can't find any discussion of a second edition, yet the difference...
by pster
Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:34 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Reading Thucydides 2014
Replies: 707
Views: 303643

Re: Reading Thucydides 2014

The EU can't stop horse meat being sold as beef in a half dozen countries, but they can stop some Germans from saying their bottled water prevents dehydration. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/8897662/EU-bans-claim-that-water-can-prevent-dehydration.html Seems doubtful such people...
by pster
Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:06 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Reading Thucydides 2014
Replies: 707
Views: 303643

Re: Reading Thucydides 2014

2.37.1: μέτεστι δὲ κατὰ μὲν τοὺς νόμους πρὸς τὰ ἴδια διάφορα πᾶσι τὸ ἴσον, κατὰ δὲ τὴν ἀξίωσιν, ὡς ἕκαστος ἔν τῳ εὐδοκιμεῖ, οὐκ ἀπὸ μέρους τὸ πλέον ἐς τὰ κοινὰ ἢ ἀπ’ ἀρετῆς προτιμᾶται, οὐδ’ αὖ κατὰ πενίαν, ἔχων γέ τι ἀγαθὸν δρᾶσαι τὴν πόλιν, ἀξιώματος ἀφανείᾳ κεκώλυται. I'm not sure what ἀπὸ μέρους ...
by pster
Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:03 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Reading Thucydides 2014
Replies: 707
Views: 303643

Re: Reading Thucydides 2014

It's above my pay grade, but I'm not sure that Chaos and Gaia actually count as gods here. I can see how not having parents would make one the oldest. The idea that it would make one one of the oldest but not necessarily the oldest seems odd and problematic. Jowett opts for: "For he is the eldest of...
by pster
Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:02 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Reading Thucydides 2014
Replies: 707
Views: 303643

Re: Reading Thucydides 2014

I've been pondering these this morning: Plat. Phaedrus 261e Σωκράτης τῇδε δοκῶ ζητοῦσιν φανεῖσθαι. ἀπάτη πότερον ἐν πολὺ διαφέρουσι γίγνεται μᾶλλον ἢ ὀλίγον; Φαῖδρος ἐν τοῖς ὀλίγον. Plat. Sym. 178a πρῶτον μὲν γάρ, ὥσπερ λέγω, ἔφη Φαῖδρον ἀρξάμενον ἐνθένδε ποθὲν λέγειν, ὅτι μέγας θεὸς εἴη ὁ Ἔρως καὶ ...
by pster
Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:07 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Reading Thucydides 2014
Replies: 707
Views: 303643

Re: Reading Thucydides 2014

Argh, I meant 4.105, not 3.17 for the dative example. Only one computer working at the moment and the wifey keeps closing my Greek windows!
by pster
Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:57 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Reading Thucydides 2014
Replies: 707
Views: 303643

Re: Reading Thucydides 2014

As far as I'm aware, with the single exception of ἐν τοῖς πρώτοις at 4.105.1, all the other examples have adjectives in the nominative. One further point: it's perhaps worth noting that at 3.17.1 the context does make it clear that the meaning of ἐν τοῖς πλεῖσται etc. is 'one of the largest fleets'...
by pster
Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:14 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Latin Tenses and Moods in Latin
Replies: 10
Views: 4668

Re: Latin Tenses and Moods in Latin

Couldn't we just regard them as three adjectives modifying "Conjugation"?

[Conjugātio] Fŭtūra Indicātīva Actīva

How does that look for an appendix table title? The bracketed word would not appear.
by pster
Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:22 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Latin Tenses and Moods in Latin
Replies: 10
Views: 4668

Re: Latin Tenses and Moods in Latin

That is more words than I want. Here is what I want. Suppose you were to set up an appendix in your own Latin book, and suppose one table was titled "Perfect Indicative Active". Now what would that be in Latin? Actually, I don't need the Latin. I can figure it out if I could figure out what the part...
by pster
Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:35 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Reading Thucydides 2014
Replies: 707
Views: 303643

Re: Reading Thucydides 2014

By 'the two upheavals in Book III', do you mean the one at Notium and the one at Corcyra? I don't have a chronology for these, I'm afraid, beyond the facts that Thucydides (a) recounts both of them as happening in the summer of the fifth year of the war, and (b) describes the one at Notium (briefly...
by pster
Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:11 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Latin Tenses and Moods in Latin
Replies: 10
Views: 4668

Re: Latin Tenses and Moods in Latin

adrianus wrote:John Traupmann, Conversational Latin for Oral Proficiency, Ch. xxv: Grammar, pp.218-247.

Thanks, perfect!
by pster
Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:28 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Reading Thucydides 2014
Replies: 707
Views: 303643

Re: Reading Thucydides 2014

I've been looking at it this morning John and have a draft of some comments. I will work on it some more tomorrow. But for the moment: 1) Do you have an exact chronology for the two upheavels in Book III? They both occur in the same summer. And there are a lot of "at the same time"s in the narrative...
by pster
Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:14 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Poll: Long and short syllables
Replies: 23
Views: 10380

Re: Poll: Long and short syllables

But take a Finn and teach him English - for him, the difference between feet and fit will be vowel length But, something seems rotten in Denmark, and maybe Finland too! If I say 'fit' really slowly, it doesn't start sounding like 'feet'. In other words, the distinction we make between long and shor...
by pster
Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:21 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Latin Tenses and Moods in Latin
Replies: 10
Views: 4668

Re: Latin Tenses and Moods in Latin

I found something online, but it is not complete.

How would you translate:

Present Active Imperfect

?

I guess those would all be adjectives with Tense as the understood substantive?
by pster
Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:03 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Latin Tenses and Moods in Latin
Replies: 10
Views: 4668

Latin Tenses and Moods in Latin

Does anybody know of a Latin book that actually uses Latin words for the tenses and moods?

In particular, the terms:

Present
Imperfect
Future
Perfect
Pluperfect
Future Perfect

Imperative

Indicative
Subjunctive

Active
Passive
by pster
Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:12 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Reading Thucydides 2014
Replies: 707
Views: 303643

Re: Reading Thucydides 2014

My Polybius is a library copy also, but it doesn't look like the library bound it. But when I look at the website, it seems you are correct as only softcovers are for sale.

http://www.lesbelleslettres.com/livre/? ... 0100804230
by pster
Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:37 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Poll: Long and short syllables
Replies: 23
Views: 10380

Re: Poll: Long and short syllables

You guys are way over my head. But I'm going to ask a question anway. It seems that in some languages the learner never has to think explicitly about length. Some things just take longer to say and so length takes care of itself. Maybe the vowel sound takes more time because of the mouth formation. ...
by pster
Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:43 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Reading Thucydides 2014
Replies: 707
Views: 303643

Re: Reading Thucydides 2014

For those who can never own enough commentaries, here is a good way to spend 12 EUR: http://www.amazon.fr/gp/offer-listing/2251003274/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used Weil's Polybius is very good. UPDATE: It says softcover (broché), but I thought that they were showing the hardcover (relié). S...
by pster
Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:08 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Poll: Long and short syllables
Replies: 23
Views: 10380

Re: Poll: Long and short syllables

D'Ooge writes very early on, in Sect. 13, and thus not in the context of poetry but rather just Latin generally: "Note. Give about twice as much time to the long syllables as to the short ones. It takes about as long to pronounce a short vowel plus a consonant as it does to pronounce a long vowel or...
by pster
Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:51 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Poll: Long and short syllables
Replies: 23
Views: 10380

Re: Poll: Long and short syllables

I haven't answered the poll yet, because I think it is unclear what you are asking. Do you wonder if we try to make a lengthwise distinction at all, or wether we try to time it so that the long syllables are exactly twice the length of the short? Good question. Short answer: the former. D'Ooge says...
by pster
Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:14 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Poll: Long and short syllables
Replies: 23
Views: 10380

Poll: Long and short syllables

When you pronounce latin, do you try to spend twice as long on the long syllables?
by pster
Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:01 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Reading Thucydides 2014
Replies: 707
Views: 303643

Re: Reading Thucydides 2014

Thanks.

OK, I'll buy the Rusten, although it seems pitched higher than Marchant.

I'm going to memorize the Funeral Oration and maybe one or two of the others. Thanks for the suggestions.
by pster
Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:34 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Reading Thucydides 2014
Replies: 707
Views: 303643

Re: Reading Thucydides 2014

John,

Is there another commentary for Book II that is similar to Marchant, ie a student commentary?

Also, besides the funeral oration, what are your favorite speeches, if you have any?

Thanks
by pster
Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:30 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Reading Thucydides 2014
Replies: 707
Views: 303643

Re: Reading Thucydides 2014

Hope both your readings of Thucydides are going well. Well, I didn't do much Greek for the last month. The holidays and the flu and possible litigation and moving to the country kept me largely unproductive. But now I am getting back into it. Moreover, because I am going to buy a TV and invest in a...
by pster
Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:24 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Reading Thucydides 2014
Replies: 707
Views: 303643

Re: Reading Thucydides 2014

My own translation reads: 'I shall pass over our and their achievements in war, by which the various parts of the empire were obtained, or when either we ourselves or our fathers zealously repelled any barbarian or Hellene foe who attacked us, since I do not wish to speak at undue length among thos...
by pster
Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:45 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Favourite Textbooks?
Replies: 16
Views: 6676

Re: Favourite Textbooks?

Assimil has nice audio CDs, beautiful cartoons, wonderful glossy pages, and a compact size. I'll certainly use it when it come time to teach my kids.
by pster
Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:12 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Reading Thucydides 2014
Replies: 707
Views: 303643

Re: Reading Thucydides 2014

John, you'll have to wait for the heavy hitters. I've never really understood kai in Greek. The only thing I would say is that the exact semantics and pragmatics of it may be subtle. There are lengthy papers on the meaning of "and" in English. It's not just a simple conjunction. So consider: Jack an...
by pster
Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:50 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Reading Thucydides 2014
Replies: 707
Views: 303643

Re: Reading Thucydides 2014

I'm struggling with the very next sentence: ὧν ἐγὼ τὰ μὲν κατὰ πολέμους ἔργα, οἷς ἕκαστα ἐκτήθη, ἢ εἴ τι αὐτοὶ ἢ οἱ πατέρες ἡμῶν βάρβαρον ἢ Ἕλληνα πολέμιον ἐπιόντα προθύμως ἠμυνάμεθα, μακρηγορεῖν ἐν εἰδόσιν οὐ βουλόμενος ἐάσω:... What does ὧν mean here? Has a pronoun dropped out? Even then I'm not s...
by pster
Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:54 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Reading Thucydides 2014
Replies: 707
Views: 303643

Re: Reading Thucydides 2014

2.36.3: τὰ δὲ πλείω αὐτῆς αὐτοὶ ἡμεῖς οἵδε οἱ νῦν ἔτι ὄντες μάλιστα ἐν τῇ καθεστηκυίᾳ ἡλικίᾳ ἐπηυξήσαμεν καὶ τὴν πόλιν τοῖς πᾶσι παρεσκευάσαμεν καὶ ἐς πόλεμον καὶ ἐς εἰρήνην αὐταρκεστάτην. I'm having a little trouble understanding the syntax of this sentence. In particular, I don't understand the re...
by pster
Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:25 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Drama vs. Prose
Replies: 25
Views: 10745

Re: Drama vs. Prose

mwh wrote:I don't imagine they had too much difficulty with the dialogue.
Which tragedies have the easiest, ie most prose-like, dialogue? More generally, which Attic poems are the easiest?
by pster
Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:22 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Logeion
Replies: 2
Views: 2422

Re: Logeion

If you use Perseus Chicago and click on a Greek word, you will get that as an option. So try here:
http://perseus.uchicago.edu/perseus-cgi ... eekFeb2011
by pster
Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:16 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Learning Greek, Latin, and other languages simultaneously
Replies: 34
Views: 13130

Re: Learning Greek, Latin, and other languages simultaneousl

As I said, I'm procrastinating! I may keep this thread going till Feb. 1! Given the tight connections between meaning, thought and world, and given how clueless most people are, I'm perfectly happy to get rid of 90-99% of multilinguals! How many languages can you read at the rate of 12 pages per hou...
by pster
Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:37 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Learning Greek, Latin, and other languages simultaneously
Replies: 34
Views: 13130

Re: Learning Greek, Latin, and other languages simultaneousl

Can you think of any concrete examples of that, Pster? I'd like to think the ability to distinguish restrictive and non-restrictive relative pronouns was basic, not advanced, English. Or have I missed the point? You may be right. And it wasn't really the best example. It's about a lot of things. Ch...
by pster
Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:42 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Learning Greek, Latin, and other languages simultaneously
Replies: 34
Views: 13130

Re: Learning Greek, Latin, and other languages simultaneousl

If I may be so bold to use myself as an example again (forgive me) I can sort of say...well, no. I had the startling realisation at one point that a lot of my words for kitchen utensils were...let's say an odd mishmash. Obviously it took 20 minutes to correct, but that would be a good example of di...
by pster
Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:07 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Learning Greek, Latin, and other languages simultaneously
Replies: 34
Views: 13130

Re: Learning Greek, Latin, and other languages simultaneousl

And there were physicists and historians on both sides of the family... :lol: But seriously, would they learn auto parts in all three languages? Know the word for transmission and carburetor in all three? And the vocabulary for skiing? And what if the family liked to sail? Hard enough to learn that ...