Search found 109 matches

by Callisper
Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:42 pm
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Reading early fragments
Replies: 9
Views: 1023

Re: Reading early fragments

Why not Plautus indeed? But if you set out to read all the surviving Plautine plays you will certainly get surfeited well before you finish them. The same goes for Cicero and Caesar, and Livy, and others. And I can only pity people who can bring themselves to read all of Silius Italicus. I recommen...
by Callisper
Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:04 am
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Reading early fragments
Replies: 9
Views: 1023

Re: Reading early fragments

Your proposal sounds good given your aim and reading-level.

If you are not married to the idea of running chronological from the start, I do think you could make the process easier and richer for yourself by raising your Latin ability first before reading fragmentary early poets.
by Callisper
Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:57 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: "Homeric" Greek Reworking of the Aeneid (Latin/Greek)
Replies: 1
Views: 382

Re: "Homeric" Greek Reworking of the Aeneid (Latin/Greek)

Surprisingly clean by the standards of katharevousa.

It might be of interest to find Voulgaris' other writings as they could well be much closer to proper ancient Greek than other contemporary katharevousa was.
by Callisper
Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:04 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: nam miseris amicis adfuisse laudabile est
Replies: 5
Views: 503

Re: nam miseris amicis adfuisse laudabile est

Are you wondering why the infinitive is past rather than present?
by Callisper
Thu May 30, 2019 12:08 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Ovid bibliographies
Replies: 0
Views: 340

Ovid bibliographies

Does anyone know of any comprehensive bibliographies available (published or online) of material published on Ovid, or specifically on the Metamorphoses? eg of the kind that exists for Virgil or Lucretius I have found Elliot’s 1968-1978 bibliography but would appreciate any others as I am particular...
by Callisper
Wed May 29, 2019 2:51 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: From a Seasoned Classicist
Replies: 1
Views: 457

Re: From a Seasoned Classicist

Not my usual gig but I'd like to thank you for this one. Putnam's work on the Aeneid is some of my favourite - (I hope my own teachers will forgive me for saying that) - and it was particularly heartening to hear he "changed [his] undergraduate major from mathematics to classics," as I did the same.
by Callisper
Tue May 14, 2019 12:04 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: TLGMarathon: Odyssey, resources
Replies: 10
Views: 1210

Re: TLGMarathon: Odyssey, resources

I am afraid I'm a little short on time to add names but I hope you enjoy your Homer. I would wish you good luck but you won't need it for a while. Can I ask what kind of secondary literature / 'resources' you are looking for exactly? Enough commentary to help you with language points for comprehensi...
by Callisper
Mon May 13, 2019 11:59 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Tolkien's "The Hobbit" in Latin: Hobbitus Ille
Replies: 48
Views: 52755

Re: Tolkien's "The Hobbit" in Latin: Hobbitus Ille

How about Montaigne's claim to have read every book in existence at the time? He was a very modest man (Que sais-je? and all that) so he probably didn't say it himself. Does Montaigne say this? Or is it said about him by anyone? (What he does say is "Je feuillette les livres, je ne les estudie pas....
by Callisper
Sun May 12, 2019 7:07 pm
Forum: Composition Board
Topic: iambic practice
Replies: 5
Views: 831

Re: iambic practice

In fact I fancy that the last line should end not οὐδ᾿ ἁλίσκεται τέχνῃ but οὐδε τέχνῃ ἁλίσκεται, with the last two words slurred together (he is drunk, after all) and successfully achieving the triumphant close to the set of five. Like cclaudian I'd quite like to know whether such metrical license ...
by Callisper
Sun May 12, 2019 3:55 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: First 100 lines of the Iliad
Replies: 22
Views: 9750

Re: First 100 lines of the Iliad

First of all, I am impressed that Joel was able to put together some code that approaches 100% accuracy in scanning Homeric lines. Sorry to resurrect an old thread - but is this true, jeidsath?! How much intervention is required on your part? For instance, how many lines would you guess required yo...
by Callisper
Wed May 08, 2019 11:01 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Learning French in Middle Age
Replies: 6
Views: 1174

Re: Learning French in Middle Age

I've never particularly believed that children are better at learning languages than adults. The differences between adults' situation and approach and children's are huge and refute any fair comparison - but my experience ties up with yours: jettisoning just a fraction of the ballast that weighs do...
by Callisper
Wed May 08, 2019 10:54 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: The TLG all the way through. Anyone?
Replies: 10
Views: 1204

Re: The TLG all the way through. Anyone?

Your scattered reading from a high-quality sample of the finest Attic authors may have sorely misled your expectations. The reason you would presumably be the first(?) to pull this off isn't that it's fundamentally 'difficult' to read that much - see jeidsath's estimate and you can easily get faster...
by Callisper
Wed May 08, 2019 10:24 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Classical Greek texts with macrons?
Replies: 21
Views: 2130

Re: Classical Greek texts with macrons?

And if you spend a lot of time reading prose before you start poetry, you will likely have internalized a lot of bad quantities. How so? Obviously you won't have learnt correct quantities but why should you have learnt wrong ones? I read a fair amount of prose before starting poetry in both languag...
by Callisper
Wed May 01, 2019 4:25 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Katharevousa bibliographies
Replies: 0
Views: 362

Katharevousa bibliographies

Do any of you interested in such things - such as those with competence in modern Greek, which I rather lack - know of any bibliographies of katharevousa texts? I am interested in finding such texts for a research project I may conduct - of particular interest for the time being are novels, historie...
by Callisper
Wed May 01, 2019 2:38 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Is -"tion" ever pronounced "shun"?
Replies: 9
Views: 1172

Re: Is -"tion" ever pronounced "shun"?

That evidence is far too thin on the ground to make statements about a given grapheme "always" being pronounced a certain way.
by Callisper
Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:27 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Is -"tion" ever pronounced "shun"?
Replies: 9
Views: 1172

Re: Is -"tion" ever pronounced "shun"?

Hylander wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:36 pm
We can be pretty certain that -tio(n-) was pronounced as two syllable because pronouncing it as a single syllable wouldn't scan in Latin verse.
Indeed! I stand mistaken.

My point of course was more generally intended.
by Callisper
Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:18 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Is -"tion" ever pronounced "shun"?
Replies: 9
Views: 1172

Re: Is -"tion" ever pronounced "shun"?

always How could we possibly know? You will be able to find people at various levels of expertise, up to the highest, with ideas about alternative pronunciations in certain environments. These ideas have nothing going for them but subjective opinion regarding euphony. But some of them are probably ...
by Callisper
Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:09 pm
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Introduction to Latin poetry
Replies: 22
Views: 3434

Re: Introduction to Latin poetry

Looking for information about Plautus specifically, I found a helpful database marking the type of meter for each line: http://romancomedy.wulib.wustl.edu/index.html Such findings are immensely helpful, to everyone apart from yourself, who should focus on 1) PROSE, 2) vowel lengths and hexameter/el...
by Callisper
Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:46 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Supter with acc
Replies: 7
Views: 817

Re: Supter with acc

Who (=which grammar/piece of scholarship) says motion is relevant here?
by Callisper
Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:14 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Consonantal vs Vocalic 'u' in Perfect
Replies: 8
Views: 801

Re: Consonantal vs Vocalic 'u' in Perfect

Is there any such rule for i. I am able to distinguish between the two, but it would be nice to have a nice rule set to give to my students as I will definitely do with this for u and v. I'm glad my rule set can help. As a beginning student I wish my teachers had just given it to me like that. Unfo...
by Callisper
Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:45 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Thucydides with facing vocab and commentary?
Replies: 6
Views: 843

Re: Thucydides with facing vocab and commentary?

What are these Latin commentaries with vocab that are mentioned? Do they exist for most Greek works? Ah sorry - I misunderstood the focus of the question - I doubt whether there would be anything would facing vocab . That said, Neo-Latin commentaries and translations of all Greek authors proliferat...
by Callisper
Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:03 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: caupōna Clientele - dependant on class?
Replies: 1
Views: 312

Re: caupōna Clientele - dependant on class?

As regards the first part: check out "πέπων" (which is LSJ and elsewhere). Quite the interesting word. As for πέπω I cannot recall seeing it used in Hellenistic Greek or later Greek in general (though this doesn't necessarily mean it never was). The etymological connection with popina is news to me,...
by Callisper
Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:32 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Consonantal vs Vocalic 'u' in Perfect
Replies: 8
Views: 801

Re: Consonantal vs Vocalic 'u' in Perfect

Ok, so just to be clear, this implies that e.g. sanguis is scanned as a two-syllable word, suadeo as a three-syllable, etc. Is this the case? Correct. In these digraphs, you can write 'qv', 'gv', 'sv' and it will not hurt you at all. That said, since I classified the cases of 'u' being consonantal ...
by Callisper
Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:07 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Contract Verbs in--έω
Replies: 9
Views: 713

Re: Contract Verbs in--έω

Ah I see. My recommendation is to forget about the 'thematic vowel' and all of that. You learnt the present endings; now you are going to tack on the same present endings to a form which ends in -e,a,o; and then you are going to contract according to the contraction rules given there. It's that simp...
by Callisper
Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:41 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: “πάνυ μὲν οὖν”
Replies: 11
Views: 1117

Re: “πάνυ μὲν οὖν”

Tugodum wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:16 am
But what, then, is exactly the "sentiment" that "οὐκ ἄρα..." expresses and “πάνυ μὲν οὖν” at 331d affirms?
That "οὗτος ὅρος ἐστὶν δικαιοσύνης, ἀληθῆ τε λέγειν καὶ ἃ ἂν λάβῃ τις ἀποδιδόναι." See Loeb for translation. It fits very neatly into the category I outlined above.
by Callisper
Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:37 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Contract Verbs in--έω
Replies: 9
Views: 713

Re: Contract Verbs in--έω

What happened to the accented epsilon? I already answered this: "The order to do things is: write the morphology; accent according to the recessive rule; only then contract (and apply the corresponding accentuation change)." So first you need the correct, unaccented, uncontracted form. That is φιλε...
by Callisper
Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:14 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Contract Verbs in--έω
Replies: 9
Views: 713

Re: Contract Verbs in--έω

Another question: What is the process for an imperative? I am supposed to write, "Like (S.). The word is listed as, "φιλέω." I wrote, "φιλεί," but the answer book wrote, "φίλει." The book says, "If the two original vowels are unaccented, the resulting vowel is unaccented." The problem is, THERE IS ...
by Callisper
Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:53 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Consonantal vs Vocalic 'u' in Perfect
Replies: 8
Views: 801

Re: Consonantal vs Vocalic 'u' in Perfect

I gather from your response that when texts distinguish typographically between u and v, this exhaustively maps the difference in pronunciation I was asking about - so every written instance of u (except perhaps in the environment qu) would be pronounced [ʊ], and every instance of v [w]. The digrap...
by Callisper
Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:45 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: “πάνυ μὲν οὖν”
Replies: 11
Views: 1117

Re: “πάνυ μὲν οὖν”

jeidsath is close. The truth is that “πάνυ μὲν οὖν” affirms not the speaker but the sentiment . In English, it is normal to answer "..., (this is the case,) surely?" with "yes." It is not possible to unambiguously answer "...: this is not the case, is it?" with "yes." Platonic Greek avoids this conu...
by Callisper
Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:27 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Thucydides with facing vocab and commentary?
Replies: 6
Views: 843

Re: Thucydides with facing vocab and commentary?

Certainly this will exist in Latin, but I doubt whether it would in English (for the whole of Thucydides).
by Callisper
Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:55 am
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Gal 5:23 ἔστιν
Replies: 12
Views: 1675

Re: Gal 5:23 ἔστιν

I'm not bringing up any 'sort of contextual argument.' I am stating how that line from Galatians might be interpreted, leaving my hypothesis intact. I remain tentative because of my lack of experience with Biblical Greek, as a result of which (or for any other reason) I am unaware of any evidence wh...
by Callisper
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:16 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Οὐ(κ) ἢ Ναί
Replies: 4
Views: 601

Re: Οὐ(κ) ἢ Ναί

In my experience, ναι is not as common in ancient Greek as "yes" is in modern English. Latin is similar to ancient Greek in this regard. I'm not sure about frequencies but Plato has "ναί" rather often, to the extent I think it's not a bad approximation for English response "yes". Certainly it shoul...
by Callisper
Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:46 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Gal 5:23 ἔστιν
Replies: 12
Views: 1675

Re: Gal 5:23 ἔστιν

In the other thread after seneca2008 showed that Mastronarde's description does name the existential ἔστι 'emphatic' - before which I assumed Lukas was just using that wording himself - I let it go because it seemed better to preserve a beginner's faith in his textbook. In reality this is very poor ...
by Callisper
Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:14 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Οὐ(κ) ἢ Ναί
Replies: 4
Views: 601

Re: Οὐ(κ) ἢ Ναί

You will find a lot of relevant options for each in Plato. Do note that if you are looking for variety, and even if not (just to check you understand them), you should think about the constructions of each you intend to use (for instance absolute "ἔγωγε" may be translated often as "yes" but it makes...
by Callisper
Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:07 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Classical Greek Recommended Word Processing Software
Replies: 24
Views: 2445

Re: Classical Greek Recommended Word Processing Software

As far as the original question goes, it's for now a moot point, since Lukas has opted for GreekKeys2015. Hardly a reason to nix a productive discussion - especially given that Lukas may well change his mind on suggestion of anything better. (And didn't exactly sound firm in extolling GreekKeys2015...
by Callisper
Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:08 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Grammar and phrases for 17th century talisman
Replies: 11
Views: 1296

Re: Grammar and phrases for 17th century talisman

You didn't offend me. It just seemed an odd thing to mention. To take an extreme example, imagine the scientists working on the nuclear bomb were informed by their employers "By the way - and 'I had to obviously tell you the context' - we're going to use the fruits of your research to murder a huge ...
by Callisper
Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:57 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: αὐτίκα v. ἤδη
Replies: 19
Views: 1920

Re: αὐτίκα v. ἤδη

The words do not mean the same thing. If you are ready, check out LSJ. If not, take my word for it that ἤδη rarely means "immediately" (in the sense of "right away") in Attic prose. So for your Eng-Greek translations going on at the moment, more-or-less anytime you see "immediately" you should be th...
by Callisper
Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:44 am
Forum: Composition Board
Topic: She
Replies: 57
Views: 9651

Re: She

Just looked back in this thread. Where do you get some of these phrases? You can't throw around idioms like "operae pretium" without understanding how they're actually used. This use of that idiom is particularly off. The Greek translation of that line is no better. There are numerous other things I...
by Callisper
Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:17 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Where to find examples of correlatives and particles?
Replies: 5
Views: 674

Re: Where to find examples of correlatives and particles?

I recommend you not worry about the precise force of the particles (or 'correlatives' by which I assume you mean particle combinations like me/n...de/) - any more than a sort of 1-4 word translation of each - until you get to being able to read Greek or take a good stab at it without translations. T...
by Callisper
Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:06 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: School level textbook in Latin (not language)
Replies: 7
Views: 1063

Re: School level textbook in Latin (not language)

There's always Euclid. As I understood, we are not looking for the primary works of mathematicians - of which there is an infinitude as they mostly published in Latin up to around 1750(or later?) - but rather purpose-written school textbooks. OP should correct me if I am mistaken as my answers are ...