Search found 246 matches

by Aetos
Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:28 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: ὅτι + optative
Replies: 11
Views: 276

Re: ὅτι + optative

Ditto!
by Aetos
Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:30 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 119-140
Replies: 29
Views: 686

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 119-140

Glad to see you're getting your 5 A Day, Aetos! I think of it as my Mediterranean Diet! Concerning ἀυτή: I didn't want the week to go by without mentioning another aspect of the phrase this word appears in - "ἀμφήλυθε θῆλυς ἀυτή". I've been reading Nagler's Spontaneity and Tradition and in the very...
by Aetos
Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:26 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: The Philokalia and Climax
Replies: 6
Views: 169

Re: The Philokalia and Climax

Sorry about that-I should have read a little further down. I had looked at a bunch of modern Greek translations, all in the monotonic system and when I found this with the polytonic typography, I hastily tacked it onto my post without really looking any further. What's more embarrassing is this is t...
by Aetos
Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:22 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 119-140
Replies: 29
Views: 686

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 119-140

Odysseus-Mafia Don? Not having watched The Sopranos , I will take it that Tony Soprano embodies these qualities applied by Stanford to Odysseus. I don't know enough about the series to accept or reject the notion, but if Tony Soprano is an archetypical mafia don, then I can't see Odysseus being that...
by Aetos
Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:01 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 119-140
Replies: 29
Views: 686

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 119-140

Perhaps this will make you feel better about Odysseus- this is Stanford's description of O. in his introduction: " Odysseus : one of the fullest and most versatile characters in literature: a symbol of the Ionic-Greek Everyman in his eloquence, cleverness, unscrupulousness, intellectual curiosity, c...
by Aetos
Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:53 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: The Philokalia and Climax
Replies: 6
Views: 169

Re: The Philokalia and Climax

You've probably already seen this, but here's a link to the Φιλοκαλία: https://greekphilokalia.wordpress.com/2018/09/25/philokalia-pdf/ I've just found this link to the Klimaka: https://www.imaik.gr/?p=6303 So far no luck finding hard copies. If all else fails, Bedwere can help you with getting PDF'...
by Aetos
Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:59 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 119-140
Replies: 29
Views: 686

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 119-140

I think it's safe to say that Odysseus can expect further hindrance from the bad guys or assistance from the good guys, so in that sense, yes, the presence of either group could have an impact on his personal situation. As far as identifying himself with one side or the other, you're right: it's unc...
by Aetos
Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:36 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 119-140
Replies: 29
Views: 686

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 119-140

I'm going with simple here: "Where have I landed this time? Is it going to be the bad guys or the good guys?" I think the effect of these lines is to provide a bit of humour, which is not an unknown phenomenon in Homer. He employs it regularly when describing the interplay of the gods. Here's a snip...
by Aetos
Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:09 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Γ25 - LSJ "εἴπερ" error?
Replies: 5
Views: 366

Re: Γ25 - LSJ "εἴπερ" error?

I thought perhaps there was a later edition than that containing the Supplement, but after a little research saw that that edition is the latest, so perhaps they need to correct their punctuation next time round.
by Aetos
Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:49 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Γ25 - LSJ "εἴπερ" error?
Replies: 5
Views: 366

Re: Γ25 - LSJ "εἴπερ" error?

And Leaf's note is "εἴ περ ἄν, even if, B 597".
Ameis - Heintze has the same note referring to B597.
Willcock translates it in his notes as:
"He eats it eagerly (μάλα), even though the dogs and men run at him."
I wonder what the entry looks like in the latest edition of the LSJ.
by Aetos
Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:59 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Apuleius, Metamorphoses 1.16
Replies: 7
Views: 356

Re: Apuleius, Metamorphoses 1.16

It's certainly not the nominative. Qua is indeed an ablative of means (instrumentalis) which is being used to introduce the subordinate clause (...erat intextus)
by Aetos
Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:43 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Apuleius, Metamorphoses 1.16
Replies: 7
Views: 356

Re: Apuleius, Metamorphoses 1.16

This is the translator putting the Latin sentence into idiomatic English. The sense is still the same - he set about unravelling the rope from the cot. In the Latin sentence, restim (note it's in the accusative)is the object of expedire . grabatulus is the implied subject of erat intextus . "qua (sc...
by Aetos
Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:28 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plat., Protag, 317e
Replies: 26
Views: 862

Re: Plat., Protag, 317e

I've learned to use the Perseus Word Tool with caution, having been burned many, many times!
by Aetos
Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:38 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Apuleius, Metamorphoses 1.16
Replies: 7
Views: 356

Re: Apuleius, Metamorphoses 1.16

I think intextus actually goes with grabatulus in the previous sentence. He's attempting to unravel the rope (restim), with which (qua) the cot(grabatulus)was made (by interweaving)(erat intextus).
by Aetos
Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:28 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plat., Protag, 317e
Replies: 26
Views: 862

Re: Plat., Protag, 317e

I think Perseus has it wrong. Final αι in the optative is long, so the accent can only go as far back as the penult.
Smyth §169,§427
by Aetos
Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:00 pm
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: Can anyone recommend a good old sword-and-sandal movie?
Replies: 7
Views: 540

Re: Can anyone recommend a good old sword-and-sandal movie?

The Trojan Horse with Steve Reeves (1961) looks O.K. I vaguely remember watching this as a kid, probably 13-14 yrs. old by the time it came to television. It takes a little from the Iliad and the Aeneid. It features Steve Reeves ( of Superman fame)and John Drew Barrymore, so it's a relatively seriou...
by Aetos
Mon Jul 08, 2019 3:48 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Tips for reading Latin sentences at a normal pace
Replies: 11
Views: 5097

Re: Tips for reading Latin sentences at a normal pace

There are several threads that address this topic. To be honest, I'm not familiar with linear reading (although I've a pretty good guess what it entails), but have a look at this thread, which has been active fairly recently:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=68509
by Aetos
Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:18 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Apposition of place names
Replies: 5
Views: 322

Re: Apposition of place names

I don't know if there's an actual list comparing the use of appositive genitives to the use of nominative nouns in apposition or adjectives formed from nouns, all with respect to place names, except to say that both are used in Latin, which I think you already know. Here's what A&G have to say conce...
by Aetos
Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:48 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 71-92
Replies: 37
Views: 1284

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 71-92

The first of the two lower registers, keyed to the verse numbers, presents comparable entries in other texts and suchlike.
This register, then would be the "apparatus comparandorum"?
by Aetos
Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:42 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 71-92
Replies: 37
Views: 1284

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 71-92

Here's a more colourful version of the beginning of Book 6:
https://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/digli ... 0102/image
This is manuscript P in Dindorf.
by Aetos
Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:44 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Apposition of place names
Replies: 5
Views: 322

Re: Apposition of place names

And can we be sure vosego is not an adjective? If you check Lewis&Short, you'll see that Vosego is the ablative of Vosegus, which is a masc. noun meaning a specific chain of mountains in Gaul. (The modern name is Vosges), so it is definitely standing in apposition to monte. There is no adjectival f...
by Aetos
Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:50 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Apposition of place names
Replies: 5
Views: 322

Re: Apposition of place names

In Allen & Greenough, check out Para. 282 (Apposition) and para. 426 (an example of apposition of a place name: "Mosa profluit ex monte Vosego"). I think the example exactly fits your question. http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0001%3Asmythp%3D282 http://www.perse...
by Aetos
Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:40 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 71-92
Replies: 37
Views: 1284

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 71-92

Here's the beginning of Book 6 in the Harleian MS: http://www.bl.uk/manuscripts/Viewer.aspx?ref=harley_ms_5674_f002r Here's the page with lines 87-88: http://www.bl.uk/manuscripts/Viewer.aspx?ref=harley_ms_5674_f037r It begins 7 lines from the top. If you look to the right of this line, you will see...
by Aetos
Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:48 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 71-92
Replies: 37
Views: 1284

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 71-92

Seneca,
You probably know it already, but if not, you're looking for H5674.
Here's what I found:
http://www.bl.uk/manuscripts/FullDispla ... 74&index=0
by Aetos
Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:13 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 71-92
Replies: 37
Views: 1284

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 71-92

Seneca can probably give you a more definite answer, but I'm pretty sure that it works like a critical apparatus, and Dindorf is simply citing the manuscripts where the displayed scholion appears. This of course is important because it lends more authenticity and credibility to the wording of the sc...
by Aetos
Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:45 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 71-92
Replies: 37
Views: 1284

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 71-92

There are others here who can give you a more detailed explanation, but I'll have a go: The letters refer to the manuscripts the scholia appear in, categorised by the library they reside in, thus: B,E = Mediolansis Bibliothecae Ambrosianae (Milan) H= Harleianus Musei Britannici (British Museum) P= H...
by Aetos
Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:39 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Learning Latin only to understand Classics.
Replies: 20
Views: 1102

Re: Learning Latin only to understand Classics.

50 years ago, my first year Greek class had 3 students (myself included). My Catullus class filled a average sized classroom (let's say 30 desks). Amazingly, they have kept the Greek program alive to this day!
by Aetos
Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:27 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: meno 99a
Replies: 5
Views: 397

Re: meno 99a

Hi Barry, It got me wondering too, so I checked out that reference to Lachmann in Lewis & Short. Apparently, it was spelt as genetivus casus up until the sixth century! Here's the link: https://archive.org/details/bub_gb_7jc8AQAAMAAJ/page/n17 The german grammars have it written with the i (Genitivus...
by Aetos
Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:45 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 71-92
Replies: 37
Views: 1284

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 71-92

Line 74 φέρεν , second foot is long because ἐσθῆτα previously had a digamma at the beginning of the word, so φέρεν ϝεσθῆτα
by Aetos
Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:28 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Il. 6.2-3 Genitive Absolute?
Replies: 10
Views: 558

Re: Il. 6.2-3 Genitive Absolute?

Hi Joel, I checked N497ff. in Ameis and he makes the same comment as he does in Z3 (ἀλλήλων ist von τιτυσκομένων abhängig). He doesn't call this a genitive absolute, rather he's noting that ἀλλήλων is the object of τιτυσκομένων in N497ff., and of ἰθυνομένων in Z3. Only in Z3 does he add the note tha...
by Aetos
Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:43 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Il. 6.2-3 Genitive Absolute?
Replies: 10
Views: 558

Re: Il. 6.2-3 Genitive Absolute?

Ironically, the German that Seymour bases his notes on is none other than Ameis, who calls this a genitive absolute with an implied subject. Here's the page in Ameis:
https://imgur.com/a/dSZUyUq
by Aetos
Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:26 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Il. 6.2-3 Genitive Absolute?
Replies: 10
Views: 558

Re: Il. 6.2-3 Genitive Absolute?

Thanks for posting the image, Joel. As you can see, this is under Paragraph 19 in his introduction.
by Aetos
Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:51 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Il. 6.2-3 Genitive Absolute?
Replies: 10
Views: 558

Re: Il. 6.2-3 Genitive Absolute?

Can't find Para. 3, but here's what Seymour has to say about the genitive absolute in Homer: https://archive.org/details/firstthreebooks02homegoog/page/n27 EDIT: I should say I found para. 3, but it has nothing to do with uses of the genitive. Para. 3 in Seymour's introduction contains the definitio...
by Aetos
Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:00 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Il. 6.2-3 Genitive Absolute?
Replies: 10
Views: 558

Re: Il. 6.2-3 Genitive Absolute?

Leaf's commentary shows it as a genitive absolute. "as they aimed at one another", (with no subject) Willcock just gives the same translation, which would be a normal translation for a gen. abs. Ameis as well indicates that it's a g.a. with an implied subject of "die Kämpfer" (οἱ μαχητοί or in this ...
by Aetos
Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:47 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 48-70
Replies: 44
Views: 1996

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 48-70

I still don’t quite understand Witte’s idea why the 4th foot needs to be joined to the 5th (thus preventing the bucolic diaresis, if you like). As mwh points out, it's not about preventing Bucolic Diaeresis (in which case it would affect 60% of the Homeric corpus). It goes back to Witte's theory th...
by Aetos
Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:26 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 48-70
Replies: 44
Views: 1996

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 48-70

Thank you, Michael. I've spent most of the day reading Samuel Bassett's "The Theory of the Homeric Caesura According to the Extant Remains of the Ancient Doctrine " (see my link above) trying to gain a better understanding of the phenomenon. He makes several references to Witte, although he mentions...
by Aetos
Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:19 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 48-70
Replies: 44
Views: 1996

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 48-70

No, I think I'm completely out of my depth here and we both need saving! mwh should be along any minute now... I'm afraid I just don't understand metrics well enough to accurately interpret what I'm reading. That I will try to rectify over the next few years! Seriously though, I've got to learn a lo...
by Aetos
Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:11 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 48-70
Replies: 44
Views: 1996

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 48-70

is he just saying that the preposition in the compound is a convenient way of maintaining Hermann's bridge, even if the new verb isn't semantically different? According to the article, it's just one of a number of ways to the prevent the word break. Sean, I've only read the article through to the p...
by Aetos
Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:46 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 48-70
Replies: 44
Views: 1996

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 48-70

If we take Heubeck & al.'s reading, the dream is already in the past, she has woken up and the ὄνειρον is her memory of the dream she has just had. Is this an unreasonable distinction to make? I looked up the article by Witte referred to by Hainesworth in the note and here's a link: https://www-jst...
by Aetos
Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:15 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 48-70
Replies: 44
Views: 1996

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 48-70

I've posted pages 310-311 of Stanford's commentary, which cover this week's reading on archive.org.:

https://archive.org/details/OdysseyStanford002