Search found 34 matches

by markcmueller
Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:56 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Real word greek works to read (in one's own native language) alongside Ἀθήνᾱζε A
Replies: 2
Views: 126

Re: Real word greek works to read (in one's own native language) alongside Ἀθήνᾱζε A

You're in luck. There are a lot of books with Italian facing Greek. Here's another option: Storia vera. Testo greco a fronte by Lucian available from amazon.it The language becomes easier after the introduction. Although Lucian wrote in the 2nd century CE, he writes in Attic Greek and is considered ...
by markcmueller
Wed May 29, 2019 12:05 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: First 100 lines of the Iliad
Replies: 22
Views: 9773

Re: First 100 lines of the Iliad

Scotistic, thanks for the link to Chamberlain's Odyssey. My first impression was that his reading is rather sing-songy whereas I immediately took to Tomin. I'm slowly coming to accept that for the purpose of internalizing meter, Chamberlain's reading may be the best for me. I'm guided by Leonard Mue...
by markcmueller
Fri May 24, 2019 11:27 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Back to Greek after 2 years
Replies: 3
Views: 444

Re: Back to Greek after 2 years

I'm mostly through volume II of the Italian Athenaze, and that is not the book you want if you want confirmation that your interpretation is correct. The longest readings are by Miraglia and there is no translation. You have to work it out on your own (or with help from people on Textkit). I happen ...
by markcmueller
Fri May 17, 2019 12:02 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: First 100 lines of the Iliad
Replies: 22
Views: 9773

Re: First 100 lines of the Iliad

I've been listening to the Iliad from time to time in the car on the way to work. My thinking is that I want to get a feel for the verse so that when I finally get to Homer I'll have some familiarity. I have Lombardo and Barry Powell as well as Julius Tomin. I'm not aware of any continuous reading b...
by markcmueller
Wed May 15, 2019 10:58 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: After Mastronarde
Replies: 7
Views: 854

Re: After Mastronarde

I'm in a similar position being 5 chapters from the end of Athenaze II. I took a vacation from it and read Simon Pulleyn's Homer Odyssey I . I really enjoyed the book -- never lost and never bored. Unlike some editions which have a facing translation, Pulleyn's also has extensive notes -- which refl...
by markcmueller
Sun May 12, 2019 11:43 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Ϝ in Homer
Replies: 32
Views: 14577

Re: Ϝ in Homer

Thanks, Folks. I realize now that the scribe who first recorded the poems was not, of course, an anthropologist. He was using the alphabet he had and recognized 'woinos' as an old way of pronouncing 'oinos'. My feeling is still that if the bards preserved all of the archaic words for the sake of met...
by markcmueller
Sat May 11, 2019 10:34 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Ϝ in Homer
Replies: 32
Views: 14577

Re: Ϝ in Homer

Thanks, Hylander. I realize now that if the bards were pronouncing F the scribes would have found a way to record it.
by markcmueller
Wed May 08, 2019 11:38 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Ϝ in Homer
Replies: 32
Views: 14577

Re: Ϝ in Homer

Why wouldn't Homer have pronounced the digamma when performing? Obviously when he went to the cafe, he'd have asked for an 'oinos', not a 'woinos', but in performance why would he not use a pronunciation when it was required by the meter (and ignore it when it was not)? Homer retains archaic words f...
by markcmueller
Sun May 05, 2019 6:22 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Error in a verb form in Athenaze (Italian version)?
Replies: 2
Views: 392

Re: Error in a verb form in Athenaze (Italian version)?

The error is corrected in the 2017 printing.
by markcmueller
Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:36 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Is this sentence ambiguous?
Replies: 2
Views: 463

Is this sentence ambiguous?

Is this sentence from the Italian Athenaze II, page 251, ambiguous?

Οἱ νεανίαι νομίζουσι τοὺς πολεμίους ῥᾳδίως νικήσειν.

Can it men, both: "The youth consider that it will be easy to conquer the enemy." and "The youth consider that the enemy will easily conquer."
by markcmueller
Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:02 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Archimedes Sand Reckoner
Replies: 6
Views: 677

Re: Archimedes Sand Reckoner

Thanks, guys! It's going to take a while for me to digest all this. I take it that no one objects to my rejecting Heiberg's commas which interfere my interpretation of the sense of the sentences.
by markcmueller
Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:02 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Archimedes Sand Reckoner
Replies: 6
Views: 677

Archimedes Sand Reckoner

It might seem strange that someone who is struggling through elementary Greek would want to look at Archimedes, but I have decided to create a little book to take with me on a trip to Sicily in 2020. I intend to include both Sicilian authors and people who wrote about Sicily -- mostly easy stuff by ...
by markcmueller
Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:49 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Are πτοία and πτερόν etymologically related?
Replies: 15
Views: 1205

Re: Are πτοία and πτερόν etymologically related?

As you can see from the table at the top, Indo-European had detailed shared vocabulary for wagons, but its agricultural vocabulary is not shared with the Indo-Aryans. For a close look at what's going on, see the Iversen and Kroonen paper that I stole the table from. "Talking Neolithic" in AJA 121.4...
by markcmueller
Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:43 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Are πτοία and πτερόν etymologically related?
Replies: 15
Views: 1205

Re: Are πτοία and πτερόν etymologically related?

as opposed to the non-IE agricultural words that are so exciting at the moment, which were picked up from the old European non-IE farming population
Seems like this exciting story didn't make the Google news cut. Is there any info on this online?
by markcmueller
Fri Nov 23, 2018 1:37 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Thucydides - good translation
Replies: 34
Views: 8554

Re: Thucydides - good translation

I have to admit that when I read the speeches in Diodorus and felt "Aha, here is the response to the policy expressed in the Melian dialogue", I realized that what was new to me might well be well known to others. The observation that there was a gulf between the Athenian's perceptions of themselves...
by markcmueller
Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:29 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Thucydides - good translation
Replies: 34
Views: 8554

Re: Thucydides - good translation

By coincidence last night I read Diodorus Siculus's account of the Sicilian expedition and the meeting of Syracusans on how to deal with the Athenian captives. (Peter Green's translation, Book 13 20-33). I was quite moved by two speeches, one by Nicolaus, whose two sons died in the war, pleading for...
by markcmueller
Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:41 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: A sentence from Athenaze
Replies: 12
Views: 1449

Re: A sentence from Athenaze

Thanks, guys! This is very helpful. Particularly since I was unaware that after ὥστε + infinitive the subject, if any, is in the accusative. (Looking at one example I found, the object, if any, is also in the accusative.) But to be totally honest, I was confusing ὥστε with ὅπως. You know, four lette...
by markcmueller
Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:15 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: A sentence from Athenaze
Replies: 12
Views: 1449

Re: A sentence from Athenaze

Thanks, Hylander! I was thinking this was a purpose clause and was expecting the subjunctive.
by markcmueller
Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:10 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: A sentence from Athenaze
Replies: 12
Views: 1449

A sentence from Athenaze

In the Italian Athenaze, volume II, chapter 20, line 70, Dikaiopolos is speaking about tragic poets: οἱ γὰρ ἄριστοι τῶν ποιητῶν οὐ μόνον ἐκ τῆς ὄψεως τὸ φοβερὸν καὶ ἐλεεινὸν ἐγείρουσιν, ἀλλὰ καὶ ἐξ αὐτῶν τῶν πραγμάτων· οὔτω γὰρ συνιστᾶσι τὰ τῶν μύθων πράγματα ὥστε καὶ ἄνευ τοῦ ὁρᾶν τὸν ἀκούοντα καὶ ...
by markcmueller
Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:41 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Claxton's "Attica: Intermediate Classical Greek
Replies: 3
Views: 754

Claxton's Attica & my progress

Hi Mark, I just want you to know that it was on your recommendation that I purchased Claxton's "Attica". It's everything you said and more. Hey, and the price was right! BTW, how are you coming along with it? Hi Aetos, I hope I have managed to create a new topic by changing the subject. I'm glad to...
by markcmueller
Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:23 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens
Replies: 94
Views: 8784

Re: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens

Even though I'm just a beginner, I agree with Phil. I'm finding this instructive. Of course I make the same mistakes all the time and recognize that when I don't understand a sentence I figure out what the words mean and try to make some sense out of their separate meanings and decide that that's wh...
by markcmueller
Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:01 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Word order of oracles in prose
Replies: 13
Views: 1926

Word order of oracles in prose

Sorry, Hylander, I couldn't figure out how to rename the topic, unless
changing it on a reply does the trick.
by markcmueller
Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:30 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Word order of oracles in prose
Replies: 13
Views: 1926

Re: Belle marquise, vos beaux yeux...

Thanks, Hylander! Since the passage was in prose, I wasn't thinking verse. The idea that a heavy spondee would be metrically less effective is rather beyond me for right now. I did sort of realize there was alliteration, but I was focused on the meaning not thinking the alliteration was driving the ...
by markcmueller
Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:09 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Word order of oracles in prose
Replies: 13
Views: 1926

Word order of oracles in prose

Topic name was: Belle marquise, vos beaux yeux... I'm most of the way through Easy Selections from Xenophon and decided to take a break and read Thrasymachus. I realize that in the Xenophon selections I've been shielded from Xenophon's word order, and I realize that the readings from Thrasymachus ha...
by markcmueller
Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:36 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Illustrated Dictionary to Xenophon's Anabasis
Replies: 0
Views: 1230

Illustrated Dictionary to Xenophon's Anabasis

I've seen remarks on Textkit about the poor quality of reprints being sold by some original publishers and the recommendation to buy old editions on-line (which I have done quite a bit). I decided to buy a copy of An Illustrated Dictionary To Xenophon's Anabasis by White & Morgan from a reprint serv...
by markcmueller
Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:10 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Commentaries on Anabasis
Replies: 24
Views: 7936

Re: Commentaries on Anabasis

jeidsath wrote (quoting me): I understand the value of reconstructed pronunciation, particularly when reading poetry, but Bedwere's clear Erasmian pronunciation is just what I need right now. Erasmian is a reconstructed pronunciation. If you read Allen's Vox Graeca, especially the Appendix on the h...
by markcmueller
Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:00 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Commentaries on Anabasis
Replies: 24
Views: 7936

Re: Commentaries on Anabasis

Also, be sure to check out Bedwere's audio of Phillpotts: https://archive.org/details/Esafx I've been snooping through TextKit for weeks and have seen many references to 'Easy Selections Adapted from Xenophon', but this is the first time I've seen a reference to Bedwere's audio -- mp3's of each par...
by markcmueller
Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:09 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Help understanding a sentence from Athenaze
Replies: 13
Views: 2090

Re: Help understanding a sentence from Athenaze

I discovered a translation of the line from Dio Chrysostom which suggests a different interpretation. It seems appealing to me because it avoids the idea that we don't know you now, but tomorrow we will and then we'll help you. εἰς αὔριον δέ, ὅ τι ἂν ᾖ δυνατόν, ἐπιμελησόμεθα ὅπως σωθῇς, ἐπειδή σε ἔγ...
by markcmueller
Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:19 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Help understanding a sentence from Athenaze
Replies: 13
Views: 2090

Re: Help understanding a sentence from Athenaze

Thanks to you both. I didn't know that the aorist could be used in this way or realize that τί was introducing an indirect question. I have figured out that when Miraglia gets difficult, he's paraphrasing a classical author. Looking in Perseus I found this quote (which doesn't have an English transl...
by markcmueller
Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:08 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Help understanding a sentence from Athenaze
Replies: 13
Views: 2090

Help understanding a sentence from Athenaze

In the Italian Athenaze, chapter XIX, line 74 I'm having trouble understanding the last part of the sentence: Εἰς αὔριον δὲ ἐπιμελησόμεθα τί οἷοί τ'ἐσμὲν ὑμῖν συμπρᾶξαι περὶ τοῦ λοιποῦ τῆς ὁδοῦ, ἐπειδὴ ὑμᾶς ἔγνωμεν ἅπαξ. I think it says something like: "Tomorrow, as much as we are able, will take ca...
by markcmueller
Mon May 28, 2018 8:35 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Next steps for an autodidact
Replies: 13
Views: 2958

Re: Next steps for an autodidact

Here's the link to a paper about Gabalas's paraphrase of the Odyssey. (The links I found in another Textkit topic to two other published chapters are now broken.) The paper's author footnotes the two other chapters, so I suspect they can be located online somewhere. Chapter 8 of the paraphrase is in...
by markcmueller
Mon May 28, 2018 1:03 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Next steps for an autodidact
Replies: 13
Views: 2958

Re: Next steps for an autodidact

Thanks, Barry! I am aware of the Steadman & Faenum books; the Hadavas books I just discovered. I certainly intend to use them as I progress. There is ample intermediate material out there for my "study". It's Krashen's "free voluntary reading" that is a (fun) challenge to find. Elsewhere in Textkit ...
by markcmueller
Sun May 27, 2018 1:08 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Next steps for an autodidact
Replies: 13
Views: 2958

Next steps for an autodidact

Although I studied Greek in college many years ago, when I decided to learn Greek again I was pretty much starting from scratch. A friend recommended the Italian Athenaze, which I love. As I work my way through the second volume, I have spent a great deal of time thinking about what to do after I fi...
by markcmueller
Sat May 12, 2018 12:16 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Introduction
Replies: 1
Views: 1147

Introduction

I studied Ancient Greek in college many years ago. At that time it was unusual for people to study Greek without first having studied Latin. The intro to Latin was two years, to Greek, one year. I managed to muddle through. Nevertheless, I always assumed I would return to Greek later in life and kep...