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Translation of a Greek Sentence

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Translation of a Greek Sentence

Postby Bernd Strauss » Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:56 pm

Φόβος τοίνυν καὶ ἀγάπη καὶ αἰσχύνη ἐπέστρεφον τὸν προειρημένον δοῦλον τῷ δεσπότῃ καὶ τὸν υἱὸν πρὸς τὸν ἑαυτοῦ πατέρα, καὶ ταῦτα τὰ τρία μεταξὺ αὐτῶν ἦν. οὕτω καὶ ἡ ψυχὴ φόβῳ καὶ ἀγάπῃ καὶ αἰσχύνῃ ἐὰν ἐπιστραφῇ πρὸς τὸν χρηστὸν δεσπότην αὐτῆς καὶ πατέρα, τὸν κύριον, προσδέχεται καὶ ἀπολαμβάνει αὐτήν, μὴ λογιζόμενος τὰ πρῶτα τῆς ἁμαρτίας κακά. Ὅλη γὰρ ἡ ἔλευσις τοῦ κυρίου καὶ ἡ ἀγαθὴ παρουσία αὐτοῦ διὰ τὴν ψυχὴν ταύτην γεγένηται, ἵνα δωρεὰν τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος κοινωνήσῃ τῇ ἀνθρωπότητι καὶ τὴν ἐνέργειαν τῶν παθῶν τῆς ἁμαρτίας καὶ τὴν γεγενημένην διὰ τὴν πολλὴν πρόληψιν τῶν κακῶν συνήθειαν ἐκριζώσῃ. Ὥσπέρ τινα ἀπὸ γῆς ζιζάνια ἢ ἀκάνθας ἢ τριβόλους καὶ τὸ ἴδιον αὐτοῦ πνεῦμα δωρήσηται τῇ ψυχῇ, ἵν' οὕτω ζήσασα ζωὴν πνεύματος καὶ οὐρανίαν δύναμιν ἐνδυσαμένη δυνηθῇ ποιῆσαι κατὰ ἀλήθειαν πᾶν τὸ θέλημα τοῦ θεοῦ ὥσπερ γὰρ χωρὶς τῆς κακίας καὶ πονηρίας τῶν παθῶν οὐκ ᾔδει ἡ ψυχὴ ποιῆσαι κακόν, οὕτω χωρὶς τοῦ ἐπουρανίου καὶ ἀγαθοῦ πνεύματος οὐκ οἶδεν ἡ ψυχὴ ποιῆσαι πᾶν τὸ θέλημα τοῦ θεοῦ, ἀλλ' ἔστιν ἔτι ἐκτὸς τοῦ θεοῦ.

Can someone translate the highlighted sentence so that I may know whether the text uses the words ἔλευσις and παρουσία interchangeably with reference to the same coming?
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Re: Translation of a Greek Sentence

Postby jeidsath » Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:34 pm

Have you considered learning Greek?
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Re: Translation of a Greek Sentence

Postby Bernd Strauss » Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:50 pm

jeidsath wrote:Have you considered learning Greek?


I am learning the language to some extent, but I do not have many hours to learn it a lot to understand Greek texts sufficiently.
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Re: Translation of a Greek Sentence

Postby polemistes » Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:41 pm

For the whole coming of the Lord and his good presence have occurred because of this spirit, so that you can share the holy spirit with humanity and root out the effect of sin of passion and the habit coming from much preconception of evil.


Some technical terms are probably translated somewhat clumsily here, but I think you can get an idea about how ἔλευσις and παρουσία are used. There is nothing here to suggest two comings. On the contrary talking about the "coming" and then the "presence" seems to indicate one coming followed by a "presence", unless something else is clearly stated elsewhere, of course.
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Re: Translation of a Greek Sentence

Postby Bernd Strauss » Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:55 pm

Thank you for the translation. I needed to see what the text means because I am doing searches in the TLG database for instances where the words ἔλευσις and παρουσία are used interchangeably. My goal is to show to some persons that the word παρουσία does not only mean “presence” but is also used with the meaning “coming” in certain contexts.
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Re: Translation of a Greek Sentence

Postby C. S. Bartholomew » Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:19 pm

To cover the subject, you may need to look at other words, for example:

Bauer (abridged) s.v. παραγίνομαι
1 to be in movement so as to be present at a particular place, draw near, come, arrive, be present 2 make a public appearance, appear 3 to come to help, stand by, come to the aid of


Lampe (abridged) συνὼν Lemma: σύνειμι
1. exist with or alongside, coexist, 2. be with; be joined with, 3. be or become acquainted with things, 4. live with or together, 5. ref. states, be in, live in



Athanasius On the Incarnation

§ 8.1 Τούτου δὴ ἕνεκεν ὁ ἀσώματος καὶ ἄφθαρτος καὶ ἄϋλος τοῦ Θεοῦ Λόγος παραγίνεται εἰς τὴν ἡμετέραν χώραν, οὔτι γε μακρὰν ὢν πρότερον. Οὐδὲν γὰρ αὐτοῦ κενὸν ὑπολέλειπται τῆς κτίσεως μέρος· πάντα δὲ διὰ πάντων πεπλήρωκεν αὐτὸς συνὼν τῷ ἑαυτοῦ Πατρί. Ἀλλὰ παραγίνεται συγκαταβαίνων τῇ εἰς ἡμᾶς αὐτοῦ φιλανθρωπίᾳ καὶ ἐπιφανείᾳ.

§ 8.1 For this purpose, then, the incorporeal and incorruptible and immaterial Word of God comes to our realm, howbeit he was not far from us before. For no part of Creation is left void of Him: He has filled all things everywhere, remaining present with His own Father. But He comes in condescension to shew loving-kindness upon us, and to visit us.

— Archibald Robertson 1891
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Re: Translation of a Greek Sentence

Postby Barry Hofstetter » Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:23 pm

polemistes wrote:
For the whole coming of the Lord and his good presence have occurred because of this spirit, so that you can share the holy spirit with humanity and root out the effect of sin of passion and the habit coming from much preconception of evil.


Some technical terms are probably translated somewhat clumsily here, but I think you can get an idea about how ἔλευσις and παρουσία are used. There is nothing here to suggest two comings. On the contrary talking about the "coming" and then the "presence" seems to indicate one coming followed by a "presence", unless something else is clearly stated elsewhere, of course.


Ὅλη γὰρ ἡ ἔλευσις τοῦ κυρίου καὶ ἡ ἀγαθὴ παρουσία αὐτοῦ διὰ τὴν ψυχὴν ταύτην γεγένηται, ἵνα δωρεὰν τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος κοινωνήσῃ τῇ ἀνθρωπότητι καὶ τὴν ἐνέργειαν τῶν παθῶν τῆς ἁμαρτίας καὶ τὴν γεγενημένην διὰ τὴν πολλὴν πρόληψιν τῶν κακῶν συνήθειαν ἐκριζώσῃ.

1) I agree that ἔλευσις and παρουσία are practical synonyms here, having the same referent. The difference is slight -- ἔλευσις suggests to me the process, and παρουσία the accomplishment, maybe the difference between "coming" and "arrival" in English, at least in this context.

2) Not sure of the best way to render ψυχή, but it refers back to the usage earlier in the context, and appears to be synecdoche for "person."

3) κοινωνήσῃ and ἐκριζώσῃ, 2nd person singular aorist subjunctive middles or 3rd person singular aorist subjunctive actives? I took it as the latter, with ψυχή as the implied subject.

4) δωρεὰν τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος κοινωνήσῃ τῇ ἀνθρωπότητι... I'm wondering instead of bing "humanity" understood as the human race it's rather "the state of being human" that the ψυχή gets to partake of the Holy Spirit in it's humanity...
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Re: Translation of a Greek Sentence

Postby Bernd Strauss » Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:25 pm

To cover the subject, you may need to look at other words, for example:

Bauer (abridged) s.v. παραγίνομαι
1 to be in movement so as to be present at a particular place, draw near, come, arrive, be present 2 make a public appearance, appear 3 to come to help, stand by, come to the aid of


Lampe (abridged) συνὼν Lemma: σύνειμι
1. exist with or alongside, coexist, 2. be with; be joined with, 3. be or become acquainted with things, 4. live with or together, 5. ref. states, be in, live in


There are a number of words which I have seen used along with the word παρουσία with reference the same coming in Christian writings: forms of ἔρχομαι, ἥκω, παραγίνομαι, ἄφιξις. The word ἔλευσις occurs infrequently, but it is linguistically closer to παρουσία because it is a noun rather than a verb.

In the instance in question, the word παρουσία seems to be used with the meaning “presence” rather than “coming,” so that a distinction may be made between the words ἔλευσις and παρουσία in the sentence. I am looking for instances in TLG where the words occur in the same context and are both used with the meaning “coming.”
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