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Orberg XLV Roma Liberata

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Orberg XLV Roma Liberata

Postby pmda » Tue May 08, 2018 8:27 pm

This sentence in Orberg's LLPSI has been a bit tricky. Livy is describing Taquin the Proud's style of governing.

Hic enim regum primus traditum a prioribus morem de omnibus rebus senatum consulendi solvit, domesticis consiliis rem publicam administravit, bellum, pacem, foedera, societates per se ipse, cum quibus voluit, iniussu populi ac senatus, fecit rupitque.

It's very hard to work out what "Hic enim regum primus..' means - This first of kings? - though he was the last of the kings!? Also the word order seems to resemble what you'd find in poetry rather than in prose. The only way I can attempt to translate it (just to confirm its meaning - I'd rather not translate) is to assume that this is somewhat idiomatic Latin. Words in square brackets are not in the text but are assumed (by me) to be the meaning....

[In these circumstances he was] the first of the kings [who] broke the traditional custom, from the earliest [times], of consulting the senate concerning all things, he governed for private interest - war, peace, treaties, allies according to his own wish, [and] with whom he wished, without the sanction of the people or the senate, he made and broke.
Last edited by pmda on Thu May 10, 2018 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Orberg XLV Roma Liberata

Postby ii56 » Wed May 09, 2018 1:52 am

I think that domesticis consiliis is an ablative of manner and should be translated as "with private counsel" or something to that effect. Other than that, your translation seems fine.
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Re: Orberg XLV Roma Liberata

Postby pmda » Thu May 10, 2018 4:16 pm

Many thanks.
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Re: Orberg XLV Roma Liberata

Postby Hylander » Thu May 10, 2018 4:25 pm

traditum a prioribus morem -- "the custom handed down from/by those who preceded"
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Re: Orberg XLV Roma Liberata

Postby mwh » Thu May 10, 2018 10:47 pm

How very topical!

There’s nothing poetical about the Latin.
primus hoc feci I first did this i.e. I was the first to do this. So here He was the first to break with tradition.
As distinct from
primum hoc feci I first did this (then I did something else).
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Re: Orberg XLV Roma Liberata

Postby pmda » Mon May 21, 2018 7:26 am

Many thanks!
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Re: Orberg XLV Roma Liberata

Postby pmda » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:52 am

ii56 wrote:I think that domesticis consiliis is an ablative of manner and should be translated as "with private counsel" or something to that effect. Other than that, your translation seems fine.


Could it be an ablative of means...?
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Re: Orberg XLV Roma Liberata

Postby pmda » Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:45 am

Another 4 clarifications / questions re re:

Hic enim regum primus traditum a prioribus morem de omnibus rebus senatum consulendi solvit, domesticis consiliis rem publicam administravit, bellum, pacem, foedera, societates per se ipse, cum quibus voluit, iniussu populi ac senatus, fecit rupitque.

1) traditum a prioribus morem - custom handed down by? / from? the ancestors?

2) de omnibus - literally concerning all..

3) morem...consulendi...senatum - literally custom (acc. case)...of consulting (gerund genitive)...the senate (acc. case).

4) societates - friendships...
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