Textkit Logo

ν in Pharr paragraph 685

Are you reading Homeric Greek or studying Homeric Greek with Pharr's Homeric Greek - A Book For Beginners? Here's where you can meet other Homeric Greek learners. Use this board for all things Homeric Greek.

ν in Pharr paragraph 685

Postby perispomenon » Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:41 am

Can someone tell me what that ν is called that is used by Pharr in 'Homeric Greek for beginners' in paragraph 685?

It's in the sentence 'ν of course regularly becomes -ᾱ'. Or am I misreading it?
User avatar
perispomenon
Textkit Fan
 
Posts: 256
Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 5:19 pm
Location: Mijdrecht

Postby spiphany » Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:20 pm

I'm not quite sure what you're asking. Are you wondering what the name of that little circle under the nu is? Or what it means? It seems to be simply Pharr's way of indicating a certain consonants when they're vocalic. If you're wondering about the phonology concerned, it makes sense to me but I have no idea how to describe it.
IPHIGENIE: Kann uns zum Vaterland die Fremde werden?
ARKAS: Und dir ist fremd das Vaterland geworden.
IPHIGENIE: Das ist's, warum mein blutend Herz nicht heilt.
(Goethe, Iphigenie auf Tauris)
spiphany
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 425
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 3:15 am
Location: Munich

Postby perispomenon » Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:43 pm

It's the ν with the little circle underneath that bugs me. What does it indicate?

<browsing through Pharr>

Wait, it is explained in paragraph 597. But now I have to find out how to type it on my Mac. Hmm.
User avatar
perispomenon
Textkit Fan
 
Posts: 256
Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 5:19 pm
Location: Mijdrecht

Postby spiphany » Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:44 pm

I think I answered that. The circle indicates that the consonant is acting like a vowel (which is why it can then be replaced by alpha).
I don't think it's a standard notation -- at any rate, I'm having trouble finding anyone else who uses it. But Pharr has some notes on it earlier: paragraph 597 "Sonant Consonants"
IPHIGENIE: Kann uns zum Vaterland die Fremde werden?
ARKAS: Und dir ist fremd das Vaterland geworden.
IPHIGENIE: Das ist's, warum mein blutend Herz nicht heilt.
(Goethe, Iphigenie auf Tauris)
spiphany
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 425
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 3:15 am
Location: Munich

Postby Bert » Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:00 pm

I think it is a standard notation.
The little circle under a consonant is used to indicate a vocalic or sonant consonant.
(Vowels with a little-upside-down-v under it are called consonantal vowels.)
In English you could compare it to the consonant Y in 'yes' becoming vocalic in 'why.'
The accusative sg. ending of the 3rd declension is Nu but also shows up as Alpha (vocalic Nu.)
Check out Pharr paragraphs 597 and 598.
(Paragraph 600 about the consonantal Iota.)
Bert
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1890
Joined: Sat May 31, 2003 2:28 am
Location: Arthur Ontario Canada

Postby spiphany » Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:24 pm

Bert, I'm curious. Where else have you seen it used that way? I spent far too long searching the net trying to figure out more about this (because at this point I was intrigued) and mostly got frustrated with my own incompetence. A few sites on Indo-European did use this notation, but it's evidently not part of the current IPA system, which uses the combining ring for something else, and a little line (n̩) for syllabic consonants. Maybe it's a historical linguistics thing? (And is a syllabic consonant the same thing as a vocalic one?)
IPHIGENIE: Kann uns zum Vaterland die Fremde werden?
ARKAS: Und dir ist fremd das Vaterland geworden.
IPHIGENIE: Das ist's, warum mein blutend Herz nicht heilt.
(Goethe, Iphigenie auf Tauris)
spiphany
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 425
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 3:15 am
Location: Munich

Postby Bert » Sun Jul 09, 2006 12:33 am

Check out Smyth 20 and 35 b and c.
Yes, a syllabic consonant is the same thing as a vocalic one.
I have seen the symbol for consonantal Iota for instance quite a bit but the one for vocalic consonant appears to be not as common.

(You wrote
and a little line (n̩) for syllabic consonants

The symbol you wrote between parenthesis appears as gobbldeygook on my screen. :o )
Bert
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1890
Joined: Sat May 31, 2003 2:28 am
Location: Arthur Ontario Canada

Postby perispomenon » Sun Jul 09, 2006 7:45 am

Still, I need to know how to type it too. Or else copy it from a site. Can anyone point me in some direction?
User avatar
perispomenon
Textkit Fan
 
Posts: 256
Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 5:19 pm
Location: Mijdrecht

Postby modus.irrealis » Sun Jul 09, 2006 3:35 pm

Hi,

perispomenon wrote:Still, I need to know how to type it too. Or else copy it from a site. Can anyone point me in some direction?


Unicode has a "combining ring below," which is character 0325 (805 in decimal numbers), but it looks nice with some fonts but horrible with others.

ν̥

This post shows up in Gentium on my computer and this looks pretty nice. I got this by writing the nu and then &# 805; without the space. I'm not sure how to type it other than using these html codes.

Thymios
phpbb
modus.irrealis
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1093
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:08 am
Location: Toronto

Postby perispomenon » Sun Jul 09, 2006 4:14 pm

Thank you; I copied it to a textfile, so I can paste it when I need it.

Thanks again.
User avatar
perispomenon
Textkit Fan
 
Posts: 256
Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 5:19 pm
Location: Mijdrecht


Return to Homeric Greek and Pharr's Homeric Greek - A Book For Beginners

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot] and 6 guests