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Pharr section 223 line 2

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Pharr section 223 line 2

Postby Bert » Sat Dec 06, 2003 7:15 pm

[face=SPIonic]pa/ntej )Axaioi\ leu/ssousin o(/ti ge/raj )Agame/mnonoj e)/rxetai a)/llh|[/face] I think this line means something like; "All Achaeans are looking because the prize of Agamemnon is going elsewhere", or; "All Achaeans see that the prize of Agamemnon is going elsewhere".

First question- Is either one of these translations correct?
Second question- [face=SPIonic]a)/llh|[/face] means elsewhere. Is this a dative form of [face=SPIonic]a)/lloj[/face] with an implied noun?
I assume it is and this is why I translated -going elsewhere-. If it had have been [face=SPIonic]a)/llhj[/face], I would probably have made it -coming from elsewhere.[face=Arial][/face]
Last edited by Bert on Sat Dec 06, 2003 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Skylax » Sat Dec 06, 2003 7:47 pm

1. Half en half : "All Achaeans see (are seeing) that the prize of Agamemnon is going elsewhere."

2. I think so. [face=SPIonic]o(dw=|[/face] is implied : "using another way". "From elsewhere" is [face=SPIonic]a)/lloqen[/face].
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Re: Pharr section 223 line 2

Postby annis » Sat Dec 06, 2003 7:55 pm

Bert wrote:First question- Is either one of these translations correct?


I lean to the second one, "that it's going elsewhere."

Second question- [face=SPIonic]a)/llh|[/face] means elsewhere. Is this a dative form of [face=SPIonic]a)/lloj[/face] with an implied noun?


Yep. This is like the [face=spionic]th=|de[/face] matter in the Simonides mentioned last month. There are several feminine pronouns that are used to indicate place (here, there, elsewhere) or manner. So [face=SPIonic]a)/llh|[/face] can also mean "in another manner."

There's also [face=spionic]a)/llou[/face] which has basically the same meaning. I don't think this is actually a genitive though it looks like one.
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Postby Bert » Sat Dec 06, 2003 9:22 pm

Thank you.
Both of you, Skylax and Annis, are familiar with the content of the Iliad.
I am not. I am resisting the urge to take sneak previews of an English text because it is kind of exciting to read it in Greek without knowing where the story is going.
If I had been familiar with the Iliad, I might have been confident that the second option is the right one.
Without knowing anything about the context, is the first option just as likely or would it have been written differently.
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Postby annis » Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:43 pm

Bert wrote:Without knowing anything about the context, is the first option just as likely or would it have been written differently.


I tend to assume that after any sense verb [face=spionic]o(/ti[/face] most likely means "that". But this is entirely by intuition, and may be unsound.
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