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I can't work out this form:

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I can't work out this form:

Postby bingley » Sun Jun 22, 2003 11:46 am

I've come across this sentence [keeping fingers crossed that I can type in Greek emoticon]:<br /><br />[face=SPIonic]o( Dioge/nej, e)rwthqei\j dia\ ti/ oi( aqlhtai\ anai/sqhtoi/ ei)sin, e)/fh o(/ti kre/asin u(ei/oij kai\ boei/oij a)nw|kodo/mhntai [/face].<br /><br />Could someone parse [face=SPIonic]a)nw|kodo/mhntai [/face] for me please?<br /><br />[slumps in exhaustion emoticon]<br />
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Re:I can't work out this form:

Postby annis » Sun Jun 22, 2003 1:35 pm

This is from [face=SPIonic]oi)kodome/w[/face] compounded with [face=SPIonic]a)na/[/face].<br /><br />Where's the sentence coming from?
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Re:I can't work out this form:

Postby Koala » Sun Jun 22, 2003 1:37 pm

Could I have a go and suggest this might be:<br /> the indicative middle perfect third person plural of<br />[face=SPIonic] a0noikodome/w [/face]<br />with a meaning something along the lines of:<br />they have built themselves up/ built up for themselves?
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Re:I can't work out this form:

Postby Skylax » Sun Jun 22, 2003 6:23 pm

[quote author=bingley link=board=2;threadid=194;start=0#921 date=1056282380]<br /><br />Could someone parse [face=SPIonic]a)nw|kodo/mhntai [/face] for me please?<br /><br />[/quote]<br /><br />You're right, Koala. <br /><br />[face=SPIonic]a)n - w|kodo/mh - ntai [/face]<br /><br />is, as you say, 3rd person plural, indicative, perfect, middle-passive voice (here the meaning is passive : "they have been built up"... from pork and beef, it is why they are so a)nai/sqhtoi)<br /><br /><br />Note that the structure e)/fh o(/ti is incorrect, as far as I know. It should be ei)=pen o(/ti - from le/gw - or e)/fh au)tou\s ... a)nw|kodomh=squai (fhmi/ + infinitive clause). See Goodwin § 1523<br /><br />Regards,<br />Fernand
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Re:I can't work out this form:

Postby bingley » Mon Jun 23, 2003 2:53 am

3rd person plural perfect passive indicative was what I thought it must be, but shouldn't it be -[face=SPIonic]entai[/face] rather than -[face=SPIonic]hntai[/face] ? The morphological analysis tool on Perseus doesn't recognise either.<br /><br />I would translate as:<br />Diogenes, on being asked why athletes are senseless, said that it is because they have been built up by pork and beef.<br /><br />The sentence comes from one of the reading exercises in Chapter 16 of Teach Yourself Ancient Greek. The introduction to the book says most of the readings are authentic, but for the short epigrams and such, it doesn't give sources, only for the longer passages.<br /><br />It's not a book I would recommend. I'm struggling with it, using it as a revision text. I think someone who was starting from scratch would find it impossible. The explanations are very dense, and although there are plenty of readings, I would have appreciated more examples with the explanations.
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Re:I can't work out this form:

Postby Skylax » Mon Jun 23, 2003 11:57 am

[quote author=bingley link=board=2;threadid=194;start=0#929 date=1056336827]<br />3rd person plural perfect passive indicative was what I thought it must be, but shouldn't it be -[face=SPIonic]entai[/face] rather than -[face=SPIonic]hntai[/face] ? The morphological analysis tool on Perseus doesn't recognise either.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />The conjugation of the perfect don't use a thematic vowel. So the -h- is part of the stem oi)kodome-, lenghtened into oi)kodomh- in the perfect. Thus, -ntai suffices as an ending. It is w)|kodo/mh-mai, w)|kodo/mh-sai, w)|kodo/mh-tai and so on. No thematic vowel as in lu/-o-mai or lu/-e-tai <br /><br />By the way, the form of the thematic vowel before -ntai is always -o-. If you get an -entai, the -e- is a part of the stem, so in i(/e-ntai from i(/hmi.
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Re:I can't work out this form:

Postby bingley » Mon Jun 23, 2003 1:45 pm

I've forgotten more than I realised. Thanks for the help, all.
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Re:I can't work out this form:

Postby annis » Mon Jun 23, 2003 9:52 pm

[quote author=bingley link=board=2;threadid=194;start=0#932 date=1056375918]<br />I've forgotten more than I realised. Thanks for the help, all.<br />[/quote]<br /><br />That's ok. I'm always being reminded of things I thought I already knew. :)
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