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Never thought, I might say this...but Vocabulary Sources?

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Never thought, I might say this...but Vocabulary Sources?

Postby Episcopus » Thu Nov 06, 2003 8:29 pm

Hello I've just completed the Words and Forms section of Latin For Beginners having learned all the vocabulary prescribed. But when I read the Gallic War for which this book prepares me I still frustratingly must look at dictionary often. I dislike this. Are there any other vocabulary sets, preferably for the Gallic war, whence I might broaden my vocabulary in order that I read it nicely? I will probably ask for a Virgil, Juve etc. one but that is by far distant at the moment.
Thankyou,

episcopo defesso
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Postby benissimus » Thu Nov 06, 2003 8:45 pm

You can use Perseus to assemble vocabulary lists for most major works, though I have never tried it, so I cannot help you much with that. I think going through a lot of work (i.e. searching through a dictionary) makes it stick in your mind better, but it is indeed frustrating.
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae
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Reading Caesar

Postby chrisb » Fri Nov 07, 2003 3:49 pm

Try:
http://www.geocities.com/paris/rue/9963/

At this site you can download 2 freeware programmes. The first deals with Gallic War Book 1, and is a Visual Basic programme giving you the text. Clicking on a word in the text provides a definition of it in a small window underneath. The second programme deals similarly with books 2 to 5. Neat. 8)
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Postby Episcopus » Fri Nov 07, 2003 5:58 pm

It is indeed, but most of the time I still can't understand the majority of it.



"Interea ea legione quam secum habebat militibusque" - what is going on?

"Gallos ab Aquitanis Garumna flumen, a Belgis Matrona
et Sequana dividit" - 'The Garumna river divides the Gauls from the Aquitanians, from the Belgians by the Seine and Marne'

I'm not accustomed to such word order as the B.L.D exercises are relatively easy and the reading matter is extremely facile compared to this.

Yeah...is there any book with an English translation on the opposite page?
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Postby Emma_85 » Fri Nov 07, 2003 6:47 pm

I don't think a book with an English translation will help you much, though. Of course it will help you understand the text, but it won't help to improve your Latin. You'll probably find yourself reading the English version as soon as you don't understand a bit of the sentence... very tempting :wink: .
It is indeed very frustrating, if you have to look up most words, I know exactly what that's like, as I hate learning vocab.
You best bet I think is to look them up at first and make your own list and learn those. Yes, sure, a lot of work, but if you use the Perseus vocab list, too, that may work best.
I'm afraid I can't help you by scanning in any vocab lists I might still have of the Gallic War (that is I'm not even sure I still have any, may have burned or 'lost' them after we finished Caesar :P ), because they'd all be in German anyway.
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Postby Episcopus » Fri Nov 07, 2003 6:50 pm

No worries if they do be in German, I would increase my German vocabulary or just make my German teacher translate them.
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Postby Emma_85 » Fri Nov 07, 2003 6:53 pm

That should keep your German teacher busy and annoyed :P . I'll check - I might still have my copy of the bello gallica lying around somewhere...

Edit: couldn't find it, but maybe my sister has it. The vocab list I use (uh... should be using) is Orbs Romanus, and I should know every word in it (1800), but I only know like 5 words in Latin :wink: . At least two people in my class know all the words and probably loads more.
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Postby Episcopus » Fri Nov 07, 2003 7:05 pm

1800 words! And there are so many great scholars who wrote great books in German. I know, I must learn it but it's harder than latin sometimes.
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Postby chrisb » Fri Nov 07, 2003 7:56 pm

I am busy scanning Caesar's Commentaries for Jeff at the moment. The text is presented in translation order and each word or phrase is followed by its translation. Example:

Omnis Gallia all Gaul divisa est is divided in partes tres into three parts, quarum of which Belgae the Belgae inculunt inhabit unam one, etc.

Look out for it on the Textkit site.

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Postby Episcopus » Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:08 pm

Sweet thanks!
I definitely will! :D
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Postby Emma_85 » Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:24 pm

Lol, Episcopus, only use it if you really can't translate the sentence, though!
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Postby Episcopus » Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:58 pm

Damn this...I just printed the first book 4 pages to a page...and they are extremely small, too small to read!
Waste of 20 pages. Damn it. i in rem malam O printer
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Postby Carola » Sun Nov 09, 2003 10:44 pm

chrisb wrote:I am busy scanning Caesar's Commentaries for Jeff at the moment. The text is presented in translation order and each word or phrase is followed by its translation. Example:

Omnis Gallia all Gaul divisa est is divided in partes tres into three parts, quarum of which Belgae the Belgae inculunt inhabit unam one, etc.

Look out for it on the Textkit site.

chrisb


Is this the same one on Textkit at the moment? If so, I can't quite see what you mean about the translation order? Or is this a new project not yet available?

Episcopus - I found the Perseus site word lists rather hard to use - they don't seem to have a filter to give the words in order in the book and get rid of words like "et". I have the program "Words" loaded on my laptop and flick back and forth when I am translating. Of course the big problem is idiomatic phrases and the meaning in context (the word "res" is a good example!) What I'd really like is a simple program to construct my own dictionary as I translate, linking back to the text (NOT MS Word! it is so messy!)
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Postby tdominus » Mon Nov 10, 2003 10:47 am

Carola wrote:Is this the same one on Textkit at the moment? If so, I can't quite see what you mean about the translation order? Or is this a new project not yet available?

Episcopus - I found the Perseus site word lists rather hard to use - they don't seem to have a filter to give the words in order in the book and get rid of words like "et". I have the program "Words" loaded on my laptop and flick back and forth when I am translating. Of course the big problem is idiomatic phrases and the meaning in context (the word "res" is a good example!) What I'd really like is a simple program to construct my own dictionary as I translate, linking back to the text (NOT MS Word! it is so messy!)


Hey Carola,
I could write a program that does this for you. What format is the text in? (Ie, how do you want it to link back to the text?)
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Postby chrisb » Mon Nov 10, 2003 11:32 am

Carola wrote:
Is this the same one on Textkit at the moment? If so, I can't quite see what you mean about the translation order? Or is this a new project not yet available?

No, it is a new project. The book is one of a series called Dr Giles's Keys to the Classics.
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Postby Carola » Mon Nov 10, 2003 9:47 pm

tdominus wrote:Hey Carola,
I could write a program that does this for you. What format is the text in? (Ie, how do you want it to link back to the text?)


Hey - could you do that? Just a simple HTML link would be great! I should try to do this myself but I haven't done any programming for several years. I should try using NoteTab Pro which is a great program - a very sophisticated but easy to use text writing program. It can write chunks of code for HTML documents by using macros etc.
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Postby Carola » Mon Nov 10, 2003 9:55 pm

chrisb wrote:No, it is a new project. The book is one of a series called Dr Giles's Keys to the Classics.


Well, I'll look forward to this. We will be doing Cicero's Pro Murena next semester at University. Of course this is not a hint or anything, but if it were to slip in ahead of other jobs...... :wink:
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Postby chrisb » Tue Nov 11, 2003 8:48 am

Carola wrote:
Well, I'll look forward to this. We will be doing Cicero's Pro Murena next semester at University. Of course this is not a hint or anything, but if it were to slip in ahead of other jobs......

Sorry! I have several of Cicero's orations in the series, but not Pro Murena. :(
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Postby Carola » Tue Nov 11, 2003 10:38 pm

I am sure that whatever you are working on I will eventually make good use if it - everything posted so far has been used over and over again. I have even copied a lot of the stuff on a CD so I can take it to work to study an lunchtime. You people deserve a medal for all the work you are doing.
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Postby Clemens » Sat Nov 15, 2003 11:59 am

Hi Ep.,

If you don't mind that it's in German you might find this book useful:

http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/3 ... 26-8241341

I know of another book that will provide a full vocabulary for reading Caesar, but it isn't published yet...:)
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Postby Episcopus » Sat Nov 15, 2003 3:42 pm

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Postby Colin » Sun Nov 16, 2003 6:28 am

I don't know if this will help but I've found these lists are very helpful.

http://community.middlebury.edu/~harris ... Words.html
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Postby Episcopus » Sun Nov 16, 2003 9:49 pm

Awesome thanks man! :lol:
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Never thought, I might say this...but Vocabulary Sources?

Postby Lisa » Fri Nov 21, 2003 10:43 pm

Episcopus - I found the Perseus site word lists rather hard to use - they don't seem to have a filter to give the words in order in the book and get rid of words like "et".


Hi,
Try the Key Terms option: they different from raw weighted frequencies and designed to tell you what words are important to your selected text.

More help on what all of the options mean and what we recommend for various reading levels on the help page:
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/Help/VocabHelp.html

Best,
Lisa
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Re: Never thought, I might say this...but Vocabulary Sources

Postby Jeff Tirey » Fri Dec 12, 2003 8:37 pm

Episcopus wrote:Are there any other vocabulary sets, preferably for the Gallic war, whence I might broaden my vocabulary in order that I read it nicely? I will probably ask for a Virgil, Juve etc. one but that is by far distant at the moment.
Thankyou,

episcopo defesso


I have a nice sized Gallic War vocabulary from the back of the 2nd Year Latin book that I can put online for you. And I have a Virgil vocabulary set too.

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