Textkit Logo

An uncertain quote

Here's where you can discuss all things Ancient Greek. Use this board to ask questions about grammar, discuss learning strategies, get translation help and more!

An uncertain quote

Postby mingshey » Wed Nov 12, 2003 12:29 am

Anybody heard of " Kyrie eleison" as a cry for the general marching in triumph? I don't know the exact spelling and followingly, the morphology and meaning.
User avatar
mingshey
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1330
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 6:38 am
Location: Seoul

Postby klewlis » Wed Nov 12, 2003 2:25 am

The only context in which I've heard that phrase is in early Christian writings and such (and even current liturgies). I don't know whether it predates that or not... though it would seem odd to have polytheistic Greek armies praying to a single "lord" (unless they meant the god of war).
User avatar
klewlis
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 1539
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 1:48 pm
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Re: An uncertain quote

Postby annis » Wed Nov 12, 2003 2:26 am

mingshey wrote:Anybody heard of " Kyrie eleison" as a cry for the general marching in triumph? I don't know the exact spelling and followingly, the morphology and meaning.


This is part of the Catholic mass.

[face=spionic]ku/rie e)le/hson[/face] lord (vocative) have mercy (aorist imperative).

I'm not entirely sure how this is rendered exactly in the Greek of the Eastern mass, since the usual Latin spelling is as you give it "eleison" which I have trouble working into [face=spionic]e)lee/w[/face] (yes, both epsila are correct).
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
annis
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 3397
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 4:55 pm
Location: Madison, WI, USA

Postby mingshey » Wed Nov 12, 2003 12:48 pm

klewlis wrote:The only context in which I've heard that phrase is in early Christian writings and such (and even current liturgies). I don't know whether it predates that or not... though it would seem odd to have polytheistic Greek armies praying to a single "lord" (unless they meant the god of war).


Refering one's god as "lord(kyrios)" could be a later usage. I think that it was at first used for the master of a slave, or a person in high social position, kings, etc. Divine beings are thought as "higher" than any person, thus the usage.

----

William, thanks!
I also had trouble looking for the morphological analysis in perseus. I trailed down to leizomai(to capture) since I heard that it was used for a triumphant general, but could not find a suitable form for such a use. The roman spelling was misleading, indeed. :shock: :?
User avatar
mingshey
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1330
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 6:38 am
Location: Seoul

Postby Emma_85 » Wed Nov 12, 2003 12:52 pm

Maybe the roman spelling originates from a time, when the eta was already being pronounced as it is today in modern Greek - like an i.
phpbb
User avatar
Emma_85
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 1564
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 8:01 pm
Location: London

Postby annis » Wed Nov 12, 2003 1:16 pm

Emma_85 wrote:Maybe the roman spelling originates from a time, when the eta was already being pronounced as it is today in modern Greek - like an i.


D'oh! :oops:

I bet that's it.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
annis
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 3397
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 4:55 pm
Location: Madison, WI, USA


Return to Learning Greek

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot] and 15 guests