oikia vs oikos

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Bert
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oikia vs oikos

Post by Bert »

Does anyone know the difference in meaning between οἰκία and οἶκος ? (if there even is a difference.)

Geoff
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Gender

Post by Geoff »

Other than Gender I have no clue, but have been wondering the same thing for weeks.

Why two seperate forms? Is there a time when one is appropriate and the other isn't?

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klewlis
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Post by klewlis »

well i can't check bauer just now but my shorter lexicon indicates (inadvertently) that oikos has a broader meaning, ranging to descendants, nation, property, possessions, etc, whereas oikia seems confined to house, household.

l&s seems to say the same thing, giving even more meanings for oikos: house, abode, dwelling, any place to live in, part of a house, a room, chamber, household affairs, house-wifery, household property, house and goods, family, race.

but i can't speak to the origins of the words and why they ended up the way they did.

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Post by Bert »

I found a reply by Wm. Annis to a similar question on the "learning Greek" forum. His thoughts were:
It seems that οἶκος can mean house or home, but also buildings/rooms associated with a house; it can also refer to a temple. From the "room" idea, οἶκοι can refer to a single house.

It seems that οἰκία mostly referes to the "home" idea: can be the building, but also means household, or even family from which one is descended, or the people in a family.
(I assume it is okay to quote him, considering it was from a public forum.)

Here οἰκία seems to have a broader meaning.
Back to square one!

Dionusius Philadelphus
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Post by Dionusius Philadelphus »

You run into a problem with Greek when you talk about semantic range. The fact is that each author is unique, and often you come to feel as though you're reading a different dialect every time you pick up a new text.

Both words, ἡ οἰκία and ὁ οἶκος, seem to contain abstract noun-forming suffixes -ια and -ος, both of which would indicate an original sense of "dwellingness," if that doesn't seem too obscure.

But this is an illusion; οἰκέω is probably a denominative verb formed from the same nominal root as ὁ οἶκος. The Proto-Indo-European root for all of these words is *weik-, which appears in Latin vicus (cf. vicinity) as well as Latin villa (this is an augmented form that underwent some phonological changes). The basic meaning of the root is "clan" in the sense of Latin familia, a sense which both words have (ἡ οἰκία in Plato, ὁ οἶκος in Homer). The idea of "dwelling," however, seems to have been a rather early development as it is reflected in Sanskrit as well.

So then what's the answer to your question?

It depends largely on the author. The feminine is used chiefly in Attic, the masculine in the poets, and the historians seem to use both. But Xenophon uses the terms in a technical sense to denote the estate (ὁ οἶκος) and the house proper (ἡ οἰκία).

You have to rely chiefly on context within a given text to get the precise meaning (building, family, possessions), but the two words are essentially interchangeable.

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Post by Paul »

Hi Dionusius,

Welcome to Textkit!
Dionusius Philadelphus wrote:But this is an illusion; οἰκέω is probably a denominative verb formed from the same nominal root as οἶκος.
I am not sure what you mean by 'illusion'. I suppose it refers to the apparent abstract suffixes you mention in the prior paragraph. There is little doubt that οἰκέω is, as you say, denominative from οἶκος. But there is also little doubt that the -ία suffix in οἰκία is indeed an 'abstract noun-forming suffix'. In fact, this suffix was especially productive in exactly this case: o-stem substantives and their denominative verbs in -έω.
Dionusius Philadelphus wrote:The Proto-Indo-European root for all of these words is *weik-, which appears in Latin vicus (cf. vicinity)..... The basic meaning of the root is "clan" in the sense of Latin familia..
The most recent work I've checked on this (Beekes, "Comparative Indo-European Linguistics") suggests that the root meaning is not 'clan', but the 'seat' or 'place' of a tribe, family, or clan (as you say, vicus -> vicinity). But there are reasonable differences of opinion about which of these meanings came first. Moreover, one can readily see how quickly notions of 'clan' and 'the dwelling place of a clan' could intermingle.

Although hardly decisive in such an argument, it is interesting that in its earliest known occurences οἶκος appears in the accusative with the allative suffix -δε (motion towards a place). Specifically, the Linear B Theban tablet Of 36, which is concerned with the dispatching of wool to persons and places, refers to 'po-ti-ni-ja wo-ko-de'. This is rendered πότνια Vοικόνδε, 'to the house of the lady'.

Cordially,

Paul

P.S. - You might want to check out viewtopic.php?t=111 and start using the SPIONIC font. Your diacritically marked characters in the Unicode Extended Greek range are showing up as box glyphs. Private message me if you have questions about this.

Dionusius Philadelphus
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Post by Dionusius Philadelphus »

Wouldn't it be easier for people to set a Unicode font (like Palatino Linotype) as their web browser's default, rather than us SPIonic? (I use Tavultesoft Keyman and have it set up to switch between languages with hotkeys -- Alt 1 for English, Alt 2 for Greek, Alt 3 for French, etc.)

But I understand that you've got a system that works.

On the question at hand, I cut a lot out of the original post. By illusion I meant that the first analysis would have us treating ὁ οἶκος as a deverbal noun from οἰκέω. I was just trying to point out in the post some of the stumbling blocks in finding precise meaning.

To which you've been some help.

I'll check out Beekes. I was relying chiefly on Calvert Watkins.

Cheers,

Paul
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Post by Paul »

Hi Dennis,
Dionusius Philadelphus wrote:Wouldn't it be easier for people to set a Unicode font (like Palatino Linotype) as their web browser's default, rather than us SPIonic? (I use Tavultesoft Keyman and have it set up to switch between languages with hotkeys -- Alt 1 for English, Alt 2 for Greek, Alt 3 for French, etc.)

But I understand that you've got a system that works.
I raised the very same question when I first joined Textkit. I too use Tavultesoft Keyman and set my web browser (IE) to Arial Unicode MS. Works real well.

Betacode + SPIONIC is a kind of least common denominator approach; as you say, we've a working system. And at this point the precedent is established.

Please post a reference for Calvert Watkins. I am always interested in PIE linguistics stuff.

Again, welcome to Textkit.

Cordially,

Paul

Dionusius Philadelphus
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P.I.E. resources

Post by Dionusius Philadelphus »

It was out of print for awhile, but Watkins' American Heritage Dictionary of Indo-European Roots is back, and very reasonably priced ($12.60 US for the paperback, $28 for hardcover).

But the American Heritage College Dictionary actually has a less comprehensive version of the book as an appendix.

It beats running to the library and checking Pokorny or one of the massive etymological dictionaries everytime a question comes up.

There's also a fairly decent table of sound shifts in the back listing correspondences across a wide range of languages.

And thanks for the welcome.

A place like this on the web is long overdue.
Last edited by Dionusius Philadelphus on Tue Dec 30, 2003 2:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by annis »

Another Watkins opus How to Kill a Dragon: Aspects of Indo-European Poetics is probably what they had in mind when they invented the phrase "tour de force." It's a wonderful thing. I still pick it up from time to time to read a random chapter.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;

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Re: oikia vs oikos

Post by Jan2806 »

Oikos and Oikia.

On the whole, in spite of authorities, I am disposed to think that oikos is the house viewed from outside as an object set before us, oikia from inside; oikos the building as such, the temple always, so a family, or lineage metaphorically. It is very often merely a difference of conception in the writer. If I think of the house as a building to which I came, I should say, oikos, if I was going in to a set of people in it, or having to do with the house inside of it, not materially, but as containing, I should say, oikia. We have a striking example, how near they run together, and yet have a different sense: in 1 Corinthians 1:16 oikos of Stephanas, the family looked at objectively from without; in 1 Corinthians 16:15, oikia. The material house as from without was not the firstfruits, but the household as a whole which was so. What seems a difficulty is the end of sermon on the Mount, building the house on a rock. (Matt. 7:24-25; Luke 6:48-49: as far as I find, it is always thus, oikodomesen oikian.) I think oikia is the whole concern the builder had in his mind for his habitation, a dwelling with his family, which was of course a house. Hence "go not from house to house," is oikia, though they might from oikos to oikos. Cf. Matthew 5:15; Philippians 4:22, and more strongly Matthew 10:12-14, Matthew 13:51; John 4:53. In Luke 10:5, we have both. They go into the oikian or dwelling containing the family, and say, Peace be to this house, oikoi, an object before their minds as one thing. They brake bread, kat oikon; and so ten kat oikon auton ekklesian meeting there, not in the household. See Acts 2:46, Acts 5:42, Acts 8:3, Acts 20:20. So the blessing comes as the peace on the oikon, Luke 19:9. In Matthew 12:25, oikia kat heautes, in Luke 11:17, oikos epi oikon. Here in Luke oikia would not do; it is a single whole thing, not collective as in Matthew: oikia would have been too intimate.

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Re: oikia vs oikos

Post by jeidsath »

I think that it is interesting that it's the οἶκος τοῦ θεοῦ and not his οἰκία. This would mesh well with Xenophon's distinction between property and dwelling-house, if it's his "house", not his "home."
“One might get one’s Greek from the very lips of Homer and Plato." "In which case they would certainly plough you for the Little-go. The German scholars have improved Greek so much.”

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