Studying and Employment (from Violation of Human Rights)

[klewlis]

It's quite easy in canada to go from working to learning and back again. A person can take part time or distance learning courses while they work, or they can quit work and get financing to go back to school. My mother went back to university after 25 years of being out, and because she was a single mom the government handed her all sorts of money that she didn't have to pay back... and almost anyone can get a student loan. So it really is quite easy if a person wants to do it... sometimes you can get your employer to pay for continuing education as well!

[mingshey]

Is Canada on the earth? It sounds like Canada is somewhere over the rainbow.

[Emma_85]

Canada sounds normal to me. It's sort of the same here, too, but most people don't want to quit their job, mingshey.

[Lex]

It's a problem of whole system, not the problem of how to arrange a specific curriculum in a school.
The system should allow people to change between working and learning periods more freely. And then the problem of forced education will be reduced when the student realized certain need of learning. Well, this is not an easy problem, and rebuttals are welcome.

It's not a problem with the "system" at all. It's a problem with human nature. After people get jobs, they have a decent amount of money for the first time in their lives, with which they can have some fun and a life. They tend to not want to lose that, and therefore don't want to quit their jobs in order to go back to school. In other words, sometimes you need to go backwards a bit in order to go forwards, and most people aren't willing to do that.

I remember my college years. I survived on Ramen noodles and microwave burritos, because that's all I could afford. If I were to quit my job and go back to school, I would have to go back to that. Having since grown accustomed to being able to eat well, I wouldn't much like that. It's not that I don't have the freedom to go back to college, if I wanted to. It's that I don't want to, because of everything I would have to give up.

The only way this could be "fixed" is to 1) change human nature (not likely), or 2) make it so one can live as a student as well as one can as a person with a paying job. This would require rather extensive socialism (which is what Canada apparently does), which has its own set of problems.

[klewlis]

The only way this could be "fixed" is to 1) change human nature (not likely), or 2) make it so one can live as a student as well as one can as a person with a paying job. This would require rather extensive socialism (which is what Canada apparently does), which has its own set of problems.

Well it depends on the person. My mother was living better on the government's money as a student than she had been as a worker, but only because she was a single mom and they support that and gave her lots of money.

As for getting used to a higher standard of living when you work... I can't say that I have any more money now than I did as a student... the only difference now is that I have these loans to pay back... :P I don't go back to school right now because I don't want more debt... not because I don't want the life of a student. :)

[Lex]

The only way this could be "fixed" is to 1) change human nature (not likely), or 2) make it so one can live as a student as well as one can as a person with a paying job. This would require rather extensive socialism (which is what Canada apparently does), which has its own set of problems.

Well it depends on the person. My mother was living better on the government's money as a student than she had been as a worker, but only because she was a single mom and they support that and gave her lots of money.

By "has its own set of problems", I meant that a socialist system has its own set of problems for society as a whole. Of course, given that the system exists, it certainly benefits individuals, relatively speaking, to take advantage of it rather than pay into the system and get nothing back out of it.

As for getting used to a higher standard of living when you work... I can't say that I have any more money now than I did as a student... the only difference now is that I have these loans to pay back... I don't go back to school right now because I don't want more debt... not because I don't want the life of a student.

But after you get your debts paid off, you can start to spend your money on yourself!

[klewlis]

But after you get your debts paid off, you can start to spend your money on yourself! :D

That's the theory, anyway ;)

[Keesa]

That's why I'm nineteen and still not in college...I refuse to take out a student loan. My brother got a good job after college, and it took him years to pay off his loans. I intend to get a graduate degree and write-think "starving-artist-in-the-garret," and you'll have a good picture of a beginning writer. I will not be in a position to pay off fifty thousand dollars of college loans.

[Lex]

That's why I'm nineteen and still not in college...I refuse to take out a student loan. My brother got a good job after college, and it took him years to pay off his loans. I intend to get a graduate degree and write-think "starving-artist-in-the-garret," and you'll have a good picture of a beginning writer. I will not be in a position to pay off fifty thousand dollars of college loans.

What do you intend to do as a writer? Depending on what you want to do, a college degree may be a waste of time, money and effort.

[klewlis]

I have student loans and I hate them and they do prevent me from doing lots of things I'd like to do.

However, it was worth every moment of college and if I could go back and do it again, I wouldn't change a thing.

[Keesa]

What do you intend to do as a writer? Depending on what you want to do, a college degree may be a waste of time, money and effort.

Yes, I've considered that. In the end, though, I decided that college probably was right for me, and worth pursuing. (Just not taking out a loan for. )

[Emma_85]

19 and not yet at college? Uh... well... lol, I won't get the chance to go to college earlier, cause you only finish Abitur at age 18 to 21 (and I'll be 19, like most people in my year, when I've finally finished).

But what are you going to do Keesa? I mean how are you going to pay for it all, without taking out a loan? Or are you working part time right now and saving up?
I think I should be. Most in my year work part time (although not to save up for later, but to buy booze), but I just can't be bothered to waste my time going to all the different places to get a work permit and about 100 other forms you need so you can work legally here.
They are just loosing out on by making things so complicated... all the jobs I take right now no tax office will ever hear of .

[Keesa]

19 and not yet at college? Uh... well... lol, I won't get the chance to go to college earlier, cause you only finish Abitur at age 18 to 21 (and I'll be 19, like most people in my year, when I've finally finished).

But what are you going to do Keesa? I mean how are you going to pay for it all, without taking out a loan? Or are you working part time right now and saving up?

If things had worked out a little better, I would have been in college three years ago. That particular college, however, didn't fit my goals, so now I'm accepted by a different college, where the curriculum fits me better, but the scholarships are lower.

I have a part-time job, I just finished taking the test that should qualify me for a college-funded full tuition scholarship, and I'm eligible for the Pell Grant. (Funded by American taxpayers. ) Between all of that, I should be able to afford college, although I won't be arriving at classes in a BMW. (Then, again, that's what feet are for.) Most of the delay has centered around the college scholarship; first there was a mix-up in deadline dates, then there was (and still may be) a availability crisis, then I had to wait for the test to be offered. All things considered, it's very confusing and very annoying...but worth it, if I get to college.

[Emma_85]

I bet you're relieved now then !

[Keesa]

Very!