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D. 9.2

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D. 9.2

Postby pster » Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:13 am

My commentary says ἐν οἷς is picked up by ταῦτα. The semantics of this are extremely obscure to me. As is the grammar. Can anybody explain what is going on here grammatically then semantically?
Thanks in advance.


πολλὰ μὲν οὖν ἴσως ἐστὶν αἴτια τούτων, καὶ οὐ παρ᾽ ἓν οὐδὲ δύ᾽ εἰς τοῦτο τὰ πράγματ᾽ ἀφῖκται, μάλιστα δ᾽, ἄνπερ ἐξετάζητ᾽ ὀρθῶς, εὑρήσετε διὰ τοὺς χαρίζεσθαι μᾶλλον ἢ τὰ βέλτιστα λέγειν προαιρουμένους, ὧν τινες μέν, ὦ ἄνδρες Ἀθηναῖοι, ἐν οἷς εὐδοκιμοῦσιν αὐτοὶ καὶ δύνανται, ταῦτα φυλάττοντες οὐδεμίαν περὶ τῶν μελλόντων πρόνοιαν ἔχουσιν, οὐκοῦν οὐδ᾽ ὑμᾶς οἴονται δεῖν ἔχειν, ἕτεροι δὲ τοὺς ἐπὶ τοῖς πράγμασιν ὄντας αἰτιώμενοι καὶ διαβάλλοντες οὐδὲν ἄλλο ποιοῦσιν ἢ ὅπως ἡ μὲν πόλις αὐτὴ παρ᾽ αὑτῆς δίκην λήψεται καὶ περὶ τοῦτ᾽ ἔσται, Φιλίππῳ δ᾽ ἐξέσται καὶ λέγειν καὶ πράττειν ὅ τι βούλεται.
Last edited by pster on Fri Apr 01, 2011 2:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: D. 9.2

Postby IreneY » Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:41 am

Hi there! I'm not quite sure what "picked" means here to tell you the truth. Maybe that they are linked and that "ταυτα", although second, is what determines the gender of "εν οις" (which is plural by the way :wink: ).
A bit like " I will guard it with my life because my watch is precious", vs "I will guard her with my life because my daughter is precious". Clunkiness aside, I hope you get what I mean: It's the second word of the pair that I have in mind when referring to it by pronoun the first time.
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Re: D. 9.2

Postby pster » Fri Apr 01, 2011 2:12 am

OK, I screwed up my question. Of course they are both plural. (Edit feature will save me some embarrassment!) But what does tauta refer to?
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Re: D. 9.2

Postby IreneY » Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:09 am

I've done worse trust me! (Can't find the infamous "pooping in a church" incident).

Anyway, it's "ταυτα (τα πράγματα) εν οις ευδοκιμουσιν".
"These things in which they blah blah blah blah blah, those are the ones blah blah blah blah" format. "These things they fare well in (they gain from), (those) are the ones they care for".
Similar to "These things they X, those are the ones they care for" ( "those" is obviously not necessary unless the intervening blahblah goes on like an ancient -or modern- Greek :D )

They care for/guard these things in which they stand to gain (poor English!)
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Re: D. 9.2

Postby pster » Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:09 pm

OK, I have a new question about this passage. What is going on at the very beginning? Why is ἐστὶν present at all? And why is it singular? ἀφῖκται seems to be the verb. So why do we need ἐστὶν? Can somebody spoon feed this to me?

Thanks in advance.
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Re: D. 9.2

Postby NateD26 » Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:34 am

pster wrote:OK, I have a new question about this passage. What is going on at the very beginning? Why is ἐστὶν present at all? And why is it singular? ἀφῖκται seems to be the verb. So why do we need ἐστὶν? Can somebody spoon feed this to me?

The subject of ἀφῖκται is τὰ πράγματα; that of ἐστὶν is πολλὰ αἴτια, in the sense of existence,
"there are many reasons/causes for these..."

In both, it is singular because a neuter pl. subject takes a sg. verb.
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Re: D. 9.2

Postby pster » Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:38 am

Thanks Nate, but αἰτία is feminine isn't it? http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/mor ... ek&prior=e)sti\n&d=Perseus:text:1999.01.0069:speech=9:section=2&i=1#lexicon

Update: Hmm. You are probably going to tell me it has to be the plural neut. adj. used as a substantive because that is the only possibility given the πολλὰ. Hmm. OK.
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Re: D. 9.2

Postby NateD26 » Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:41 am

pster wrote:Update: Hmm. You are probably going to tell me it has to be the plural neut. adj. used as a substantive because that is the only possibility given the πολλὰ. Hmm. OK.

As is customary to find in Attic prose. :)
Note though that the feminine noun has its accent on the penultimate throughout (barring the gen. pl. of course).
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