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Comenius - Greek

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Comenius - Greek

Postby KramerKram » Sat May 02, 2009 10:56 pm

On Evan's Latinum site, he has information about his great Latin Comenius project. But I have heard no one doing anything with the Greek on there.
I wish I could find a parallel Latin-Greek Level 1. But anyways,
one of the levels, level four, contains a Latin-Greek and Latin-Greek-French version.

Have any of you messed around with the Greek on there?

I have found a few other parallel texts playing around on EEBO. For example, Posselius' ΔΙΑΛΟΓΩΝ and the Westminster Shorter Catechism in parallel Greek and Latin.

The problem is the ligatures. I have compiled my own personal list of ligatures by just guessing and comparing, and by reverse translation from the Latin.
Do you think it's worthwhile to study these Greek texts, let alone transcribe the difficult ligatures?
Do you know of any other parallel Greek texts like this (especially ones that are more easily read, or already transcribed)?

For fun, here is some transcription from those files (I don't have anything transcribed from Posselius):

Comenius wrote:Η ΤΩΝ ΓΛΩΤΤΩΝ ΘΥΡΑ ΑΝΕΩΙΓΜΕΝΗ
ἡ τῶν γλωττῶν θύρα ἀνεῳγμένη

I.Εἴσοδος

Περίοδος Α´

1.Χαῖρε ὦ φίλε ἀναγνώστα.
2.Πυθόμενος, τί τὸ λόγιον (πεπαιδευμένον) εἶναι, ταυτηνὶ τὴν ἀπόκρισσιν λάβε·
Τὰς τῶν ἁπάντων διαφορὰς εἰδέναι, οἷον τʼ εἶναι, ἕκαστον ὀνομαστὶ ἐνφράζειν.
3.Οὐδὲν δὲ παρα τοῦτο; (προσέτι τούτοις) μηδὲν ἀτεχνῶς.
4.Ὁ γάρτοι μαθὼν τὴν τῆς φύσεως τε καὶ τῆς τέχνης ὀνοματοθεσίαν, ἀπάσης παιδείας κρηπίδα καλῶς ὑπέθηκε.
5.Τοῦτο δὲ τάχα που δυσχερές; (δύσκλον.)


Westminster Shorter Catechism wrote:Διδάσκαλος
Ἐρώτησις 1. Τί ἐστι τὸ κυριώτατον τέλος τοῦ ἀνθρώπου;

Μαθητής
Ἀπόκρισις: Τὸ κυριώτατον τέλος τοῦ ἀνθρώπου, ἐστὶ, τὸ δοξάζειν τὸν θεὸν, καὶ μετʼ αὐτοῦ κοινωνίαν ἔχειν εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας.

Διδάσκαλος
Ἐρώτ. 2. Ποῖον δέ τινα κανόνα προὔθηκεν ἡμῖν ὁ θεὸς οἷον κατευθύνειν ἡμᾶς ὃν τρόπον δοξάζωμεν αὐτὸν, καὶ μετʼ αὐτοῦ κοινωνίαν ἔχωμεν;

Μαθητής
Ἀπόκρ. Ὁ Λόγος τοῦ θεοῦ (ταῖς τοῦ Παλαιᾶς τε, καὶ τῆς Καινῆς Διαθήκης Γραφαῖς ἐμπεριεχόμενος) μόνος ἐστὶ κανὼν, οἷος κατευθύνειν ἡμᾶς, ὅν τρόπον δοξάζωμεν αὐτὸν, καὶ μετʼ αὐτοῦ κοινωνίαν ἔχωμεν.

Διδάσκαλος
Ἐρώτ. 3. Τί δʼαἱ Γραφαὶ μάλιστα διδάσκουσι;

Μαθητής
Ἀπόκρ. Αἱ Γραφαὶ μάλιστα διδάσκουσί, τι δεῖ τὸν Ἄνθρωπον πιστεύειν περὶ τοῦ Θεοῦ, καὶ τὸ ποῖον καθῆκον ὁ Θεὸς παρὰ τοῦ Ἀνθρώπου ἀπαιτεῖ.

Διδάσκαλος
Ἐρώτ. 4. Τί δʼἐστιν ὁ Θεός;

Μαθητής
Ἀπόκρ. Ὁ Θεός ἐστι πνεῦμα, ἄπειρον, ἀΐδιον, ἀπαράλλακτον τὴν οὐσίαν αὐτοῦ καὶ Σοφίαν, καὶ Δύναμιν, καὶ Ἁγιωσύνην, καὶ Δικαιοσύνην, καὶ Ἀγαθωσύνην, καὶ Ἀλήθειαν.


The transcription is slow, grueling work, but it can be very rewarding.

Just posting to find out: Anyone interested in this stuff?
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Re: Comenius - Greek

Postby paulusnb » Sun May 03, 2009 3:36 am

It is not a beginner's text, but the Latin Vulgate and the Greek can be had side by side for 40 dollars. http://www.amazon.com/Novum-Testamentum ... 721&sr=8-1
When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. ~Swift
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Re: Comenius - Greek

Postby cb » Sun May 03, 2009 6:49 am

hi, for the most common ligatures, search for "literarum nexus" or "alphabetum graecum", e.g.:

http://books.google.fr/books?id=76gNAAA ... =3#PPA8,M1

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k1 ... .f5.langFR

for a fuller list of ligatures, see this link (the ligatures start from page 4):

http://schmidhauser.us/tools/rgl/rgreekl2.pdf

as for books with both greek and latin, a search of "intitle:graece intitle:latine" in google books will give you lots of hits:

http://books.google.fr/books?q=intitle: ... e&as_brr=1

cheers :)
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Re: Comenius - Greek

Postby KramerKram » Mon May 04, 2009 7:42 pm

cb wrote:hi, for the most common ligatures, search for "literarum nexus" or "alphabetum graecum", e.g.:

http://books.google.fr/books?id=76gNAAA ... =3#PPA8,M1

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k1 ... .f5.langFR

for a fuller list of ligatures, see this link (the ligatures start from page 4):

http://schmidhauser.us/tools/rgl/rgreekl2.pdf

as for books with both greek and latin, a search of "intitle:graece intitle:latine" in google books will give you lots of hits:

http://books.google.fr/books?q=intitle: ... e&as_brr=1

cheers :)


That ligature list is SUPER helpful.

Thanks a ton.
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Re: Comenius - Greek

Postby LSorenson » Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:16 pm

I have been interested in a Greek-Latin Comenius since I first found out about Comenius a couple of weeks ago. The Latin Comenius project is the place for versions of Comenius' books. The 4th book, Janua has a Latin-Classical Greek version. Latin and Classical Greek ed. Theodoro Simonio; http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=9VMTAAAAQAAJ.

I have translated a couple of Comenius' chapters into Koine. They can be found at http://www.letsreadgreek.com/comenius. There were about four different editions of Orbis Pictus which were also translated into Greek. You can find some of them online at http://www.worldcat.org/search?q=kw%3Agraeco+au%3Acomenius&qt=advanced&dblist=638. As far as I can tell, the only copies in America are at Princeton, Indiana U and the University of Illinois. Those books are the 1801/1802 edition.

The book Beitrager Zur Geschichte und Kultur Der Stadt Nurnberg, #14, "Die Ausgaben des Orbis Sensualium Pictus: Eine Bibliographie Bearbeitet von Dr. Kurt Pilz" (1967) is a bibliography of the Orbis Sensualium Pictus. He gives five different versions which have Greek

#146 Joh. Amos Comenius Orbis pictus graceo-latinus, uisui studiosae juventutis accomodatus. 8 maj Vindobonae, Lipsiae Liebeskind 1801
#147 Ιωαννης Αμωσος Κομενιος ελληνολατινικος τηη χρησει της σχολαστικης νεοτητος εφαρμοσθεις εν βιεννη, παρα τω Ιωαννψ γεωργιω βινζ, MDCCCII (Jo. Amos Comenius Graeco Latinus Usui Studiosae Juventutis Accomodatus Vindobonae, Apud J. G. Binzium, MDCCCII.
#168 Ioannis Amos Comenii Orbis Pictus Graeco-Latinus. Quem ad Usum Juventutis, Graecarum Litterarum Studiosae, Accomomodatus Curavit Mart. Span. Vindobonae, Apud Josephum Geistinger. (1820)
#169 Joannis Amos Comenii Orbis Graeco-Latinus, quem ad usum Juventutis, Graecarum Litterarum Studiosae Accomodatum Curavit Martinus Span, Professor. Vienne & Tergest, Apud Josephum Geistinger. 1820
#176 Apparently was a plan for a 10 language diglott. I don't know if this got off the ground. Ιω. Α'μω. Κομενιος δεκάγλωσσος herausgegeben von Mihail Boiagi, 1829.

Those are the only Greek versions of Orbis Sensualium Pictus I can find. It would be great if someone could get one of these versions online.

Louis
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Re: Comenius - Greek

Postby LSorenson » Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:31 pm

The book Jo. Amos Comenius graeco latinus usui studiosae juventutis accomodatus. Publisher: Apud J. G. Siuzium, 1802. has been indexed on Google Books. I'm told that when this happens the book is likely to come out soon.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=DaGLPQAACAAJ
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Re: Comenius - Greek

Postby KramerKram » Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:20 am

LSorenson wrote:I have been interested in a Greek-Latin Comenius since I first found out about Comenius a couple of weeks ago. The Latin Comenius project is the place for versions of Comenius' books. The 4th book, Janua has a Latin-Classical Greek version. Latin and Classical Greek ed. Theodoro Simonio; http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=9VMTAAAAQAAJ.

I have translated a couple of Comenius' chapters into Koine. They can be found at http://www.letsreadgreek.com/comenius. There were about four different editions of Orbis Pictus which were also translated into Greek. You can find some of them online at http://www.worldcat.org/search?q=kw%3Agraeco+au%3Acomenius&qt=advanced&dblist=638. As far as I can tell, the only copies in America are at Princeton, Indiana U and the University of Illinois. Those books are the 1801/1802 edition.

The book Beitrager Zur Geschichte und Kultur Der Stadt Nurnberg, #14, "Die Ausgaben des Orbis Sensualium Pictus: Eine Bibliographie Bearbeitet von Dr. Kurt Pilz" (1967) is a bibliography of the Orbis Sensualium Pictus. He gives five different versions which have Greek

#146 Joh. Amos Comenius Orbis pictus graceo-latinus, uisui studiosae juventutis accomodatus. 8 maj Vindobonae, Lipsiae Liebeskind 1801
#147 Ιωαννης Αμωσος Κομενιος ελληνολατινικος τηη χρησει της σχολαστικης νεοτητος εφαρμοσθεις εν βιεννη, παρα τω Ιωαννψ γεωργιω βινζ, MDCCCII (Jo. Amos Comenius Graeco Latinus Usui Studiosae Juventutis Accomodatus Vindobonae, Apud J. G. Binzium, MDCCCII.
#168 Ioannis Amos Comenii Orbis Pictus Graeco-Latinus. Quem ad Usum Juventutis, Graecarum Litterarum Studiosae, Accomomodatus Curavit Mart. Span. Vindobonae, Apud Josephum Geistinger. (1820)
#169 Joannis Amos Comenii Orbis Graeco-Latinus, quem ad usum Juventutis, Graecarum Litterarum Studiosae Accomodatum Curavit Martinus Span, Professor. Vienne & Tergest, Apud Josephum Geistinger. 1820
#176 Apparently was a plan for a 10 language diglott. I don't know if this got off the ground. Ιω. Α'μω. Κομενιος δεκάγλωσσος herausgegeben von Mihail Boiagi, 1829.

Those are the only Greek versions of Orbis Sensualium Pictus I can find. It would be great if someone could get one of these versions online.

Louis


Louis, thanks to your titles, I found a copy! (I was always googling "Graeco-Latinum")

Here's what I found:
Check me out.

Look at the left sidebar for the PDF download. You can only download 20 pages at a time, though.

If someone wants to compile the parts into a single file, that'd be great! :D
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Re: Comenius - Greek

Postby LSorenson » Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:18 pm

Seems like only pages 1-86 are available. The book starts with chapter 3 Mundus.
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Re: Comenius - Greek

Postby LSorenson » Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:53 am

The book Joannis Amos Comenii Orbis Pictus Graeco-Latinus, Quem ad usum juventutis, graecarum litterarum studiosae, accommodatum curavit Mart. Span., Vindobonae, apud Josephum Geistinger, 1820 can be found at http://www.letsreadgreek.com/comenius/ at the top of the page. I have combined all the files into a single pdf file. The size is 21 MG. This book only contains chapters 3 - 82. The Latin Orbis Sensualium Pictus has 151 chapters.
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Re: Comenius - Greek

Postby LSorenson » Mon Sep 21, 2009 5:10 am

I found another reference to the 1802 book at a the Czech library http://www.npkk.cz/kpwinsqlnpkk/zaznam.php?detail_num=201696&vers=3.
If anybody can make sense out of this or find a download link, that would be great.

A bookseller list the following information for the 1802 Greek edition:
COMENIUS, J.A.J. Graeco Latinus usui Studiosae Juventutis accomodatus. Vienna, 1802. Greek-Latin version of the Orbis Pictus with 82 woodcuts. £1,250
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Re: Comenius - Greek

Postby bedwere » Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:27 am

Today I've found this:
Comenius Graeco latinus usui studiosae juventutis accommodatus


It has also more pages and figures.
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Re: Comenius - Greek

Postby KramerKram » Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:45 am

Nice find!

Anyone know the rules about posting a complete PDF of that file here?
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Re: Comenius - Greek

Postby LSorenson » Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:29 pm

I've put together a complete PDF of the entire book. It can be found at http://www.letsreadgreek.com/comenius
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