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The Grammar of Grammar

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The Grammar of Grammar

Postby pmda » Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:35 pm

I'm a bit confused about the description of grammar in Latin.

For example Orberg has in Exercitia Latina the following: Plusquamperfectum passivi constat ex participio perfecti et praeterito imperfecto verbi 'esse'.

I get confused as to when / whether / if words like 'passivi' and 'imperfecto' have to be used the way he uses them. To explain my question. I had written 'Plusquamperfectum passivum' - thus 'passivum' as an adjective. So he has 'passivi' to show the meaning 'Pluperfect OF the passive', right? But then he has '...et praeterito imperfecto....'. Could I have written '...et praeterito imperfecti...'?

Is there a good overview of the grammar of discussing grammar (I see a chapter later in LLPSI dealing with grammar so perhaps I should wait for this..)?? I'd be grateful for any thoughts... Because I'd like to be able to use more or even all latin when discussing grammar on this forum but I'm not clear about whether things have to be written as they are...
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Re: The Grammar of Grammar

Postby thesaurus » Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:29 pm

I'm sure someone here (Adrianus?) can give you a good reference for Latin grammatical terms--after all, we have the words of plenty Latin grammarians from various eras.

I think Orberg is relying on unstated nouns, here.

"Plusquamperfectum passivi [verbi] constat ex participio perfecti [verbi] et praeterito imperfecto verbi 'esse'."

"The pluperfect of a passive [verb] consists of the participle of the perfect [verb] and the past imperfect of the verb 'esse.'"

I don't see a problem with the way you did it. It's a question of whether to use the adjectives as adjectives, or to use them substantively. "Plusquamperfectum passivum," "participio perfecto," and "praeterito imperfecti verbi" all make sense to me. But perhaps this violates a precept of Latin style of which I'm unaware...
Horae quidem cedunt et dies et menses et anni, nec praeteritum tempus umquam revertitur nec quid sequatur sciri potest. Quod cuique temporis ad vivendum datur, eo debet esse contentus. --Cicero, De Senectute
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Re: The Grammar of Grammar

Postby adrianus » Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:54 pm

thesaurus wrote:I'm sure someone here (Adrianus?) can give you a good reference for Latin grammatical terms--after all, we have the words of plenty Latin grammarians from various eras.

This for example // Exempli gratiâ hoc: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=QjF0jRivSRoC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Elucidata_Grammatica_Latina_ad_strictam&source=bl&ots=90BGE5OywC&sig=vNyb3XrahLd7_ZeAm_hNQrFgo0E&hl=en&ei=R31ETZHfL5OxhQeg0pjoAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: The Grammar of Grammar

Postby pmda » Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:49 pm

thesaurus / adrianus, gratias vobis ago.
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