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idolatery

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idolatery

Postby mohit » Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:19 am

Salvete,
I read the story of statue of a calf, Aron and Abraham. This prohibits the idolatery. Then why christians have statues of jesus, mery and saints. Is'nt it violation of law?
Valete.
gururbramha gururvishnuhu gururdevo maheshvaraha
guruhu sakshat parahbrahma tasmai shrigurave namaha
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Re: idolatery

Postby Markos » Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:10 pm

Christians are not bound by the law.
I am writing in Ancient Greek not because I know Greek well, but because I hope that it will improve my fluency in reading. I got the idea for this from Adrianus over on the Latin forum here at Textkit.
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Re: idolatery

Postby mohit » Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:40 am

By using word law I mean to say law given by the scripture i.e. the bible. And christian is definately bound to law of the scripture.
gururbramha gururvishnuhu gururdevo maheshvaraha
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Re: idolatery

Postby Markos » Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:16 pm

Hi,

Are Christians bound to the dietary laws?
I am writing in Ancient Greek not because I know Greek well, but because I hope that it will improve my fluency in reading. I got the idea for this from Adrianus over on the Latin forum here at Textkit.
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Re: idolatery

Postby edonnelly » Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:27 pm

mohit wrote:And christian is definately bound to law of the scripture.


How do you come to that conclusion?
The lists:
G'Oogle and the Internet Pharrchive - 1100 or so free Latin and Greek books.
DownLOEBables - Free books from the Loeb Classical Library
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Re: idolatery

Postby mohit » Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:58 pm

If a christian or any follower of other religion is not bound to his scripture's law then what is his foundation of faith?
One cannot keep faith according to swing of one's mind. He has to follow a scripture or any commands given by great teachers of his religion.
gururbramha gururvishnuhu gururdevo maheshvaraha
guruhu sakshat parahbrahma tasmai shrigurave namaha
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Re: idolatery

Postby edonnelly » Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:50 pm

mohit wrote:If a christian or any follower of other religion is not bound to his scripture's law then what is his foundation of faith?
One cannot keep faith according to swing of one's mind. He has to follow a scripture or any commands given by great teachers of his religion.


I think you come to this discussion with a large set of underlying assumptions. You assume that one must follow scripture's law and then conclude from that assumption that one must follow scripture's law. What about those who see the Old Testament of the Bible as a set of figurative stories? Jesus did much of his teaching using parables --- stories told for their underlying meaning and "moral" (as in "the moral of the story"), rather than for their literal truth. Is it your belief that the only foundation of faith is a literal interpretation of everything written in the Bible? I think it is fine for any one individual to come to that conclusion for him- or herself, but I believe there is no logical way to come to that conclusion as being true for everyone unless you make the logical fallacy of asserting your conclusion.
The lists:
G'Oogle and the Internet Pharrchive - 1100 or so free Latin and Greek books.
DownLOEBables - Free books from the Loeb Classical Library
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Re: idolatery

Postby Adelheid » Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:05 pm

I have always understood that it was not allowed to depict God. Jesus, Mary, saints were a different matter, at least according to Catholics. The Protestants didn't agree, iconoclasm being a part of the struggles between Catholics and Protestants in the 16th century for example.
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Re: idolatery

Postby Markos » Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:32 pm

If a christian or any follower of other religion is not bound to his scripture's law then what is his foundation of faith?


Christianity is not a religion. It is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. He died so that we do not have to be bound to the law. The foundation of Christianity is what Jesus did on the cross, not what we do.

By the way, I believe in a literal interpretation of scripture.
I am writing in Ancient Greek not because I know Greek well, but because I hope that it will improve my fluency in reading. I got the idea for this from Adrianus over on the Latin forum here at Textkit.
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Re: idolatery

Postby mohit » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:51 am

If a christian is not bound to law of scripture then what is the use of old testament in the bible? to read only stories?
jesus told his followere not to violate a single command of the law of scripture.
christianity is personal relationship with jesus, is ok. But to see only his crusifixion is true christianity?
Foundation of christianity is only by phenomenon accord on the cross or it also lies in the sayings of the jesus?
gururbramha gururvishnuhu gururdevo maheshvaraha
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Re: idolatery

Postby Markos » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:17 am

Greetings

If a christian is not bound to law of scripture then what is the use of old testament in the bible?


To testify to Jesus Christ. "You search the scriptures because you think that you will find eternal life in them. But these testify to me."

jesus told his followere not to violate a single command of the law of scripture.


He told this to Ηis Jewish followers. Paul tells Christians that Christ is the end of the law.

Foundation of christianity is only by phenomenon accord on the cross or it also lies in the sayings of the jesus?


The sayings of Jesus are mostly important because of what He said about Himself. But you have to go to post-resurrection Paul to get the full picture. Nothing but the blood. Justification by faith through grace plus nothing,

ερρωσο.
I am writing in Ancient Greek not because I know Greek well, but because I hope that it will improve my fluency in reading. I got the idea for this from Adrianus over on the Latin forum here at Textkit.
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Re: idolatery

Postby mohit » Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:13 am

Salve,
Is it the view of all main christian churches.
If there is contradiction in the sayings of jesus and saint paul, who became apostle after jesus went to heaven and never heard jesus' word by faith when jesus was alive, whose saying and teaching should be followed by a christian?
If the old testament is only to testify jesus then beside jews how can one keep faith in jesus? Because non-jew does not belive in old testament.
Are there two christian paths for jews and non jews. So that jews can follow commands of o.t. and also by that command of jesus.And other big non-jew world can follow saint paul's teaching i.e. not practicing o.t. and only keep faith in jesus. Then between these two who will go to heaven?
Vale.
gururbramha gururvishnuhu gururdevo maheshvaraha
guruhu sakshat parahbrahma tasmai shrigurave namaha
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Re: idolatery

Postby Markos » Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:48 am

Is it the view of all main christian churches


Probably not, no. Most Churches are in the religion business, so they will tell you what to do instead of telling you what Jesus did.

If there is contradiction in the sayings of jesus and saint paul, who became apostle after jesus went to heaven and never heard jesus' word by faith when jesus was alive, whose saying and teaching should be followed by a christian?


Paul, who got his message directly from the risen Christ after the work of the cross was completed. Jesus was speaking to Jews, not Christians. I mean, there were no Christians until Jesus died and rose.

Are there two christian paths for jews and non jews.


No. Jesus is the only path.

Then between these two who will go to heaven?


Anyone who believes that Jesus died for their sins will go to heaven. Anyone who does not will not.
I am writing in Ancient Greek not because I know Greek well, but because I hope that it will improve my fluency in reading. I got the idea for this from Adrianus over on the Latin forum here at Textkit.
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Re: idolatery

Postby calvinist » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:21 pm

Catholics do, but most Protestants are against this practice. Many Protestant churches only have a cross, but without Jesus on it. Also, you have to distinguish between simply having a picture/image of something and actually ascribing some superior value/power to it. I'm gonna catch flack but I would say that the Catholic practice of carrying rosaries and pictures of saints is low-grade idolatry. So, yes I agree but it's not black and white, there are nuances in this world.
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Re: idolatery

Postby beerclark » Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:58 pm

I am not highly versed in religion but I enjoy learning about it but I think I can explain some of this.

Regarding idolatry, it is not the concept of praying with the rosary or praying to the Virgin Mary in front of her image. These are practices of worship simply using these items as a focal point. Of course, I think this idea sometimes gets corrupted by worshipers and they misunderstand or don’t really differentiate between praying to God through an image or a cross or simply bowing their heads. And they may believe that they are connecting with God through these objects. Of course I am simply generalizing for discussion.. lots of people think different things when they worship.

The concept of idolatry (as I understand it) is that you are praying TO THE OBJECT. And that the power of (a) God all comes from that object and that object IS God. I would speculate that God forbids this practice because it would imply (falsely in the Christian sense) that you could contain God. But God is saying you cannot… the idol is just an object.

I think a good example is the Ark of the Covenant (the container of the broken 10 Commandments). In the Bible, it is used against the jews enemies by the power of God. It is not a source of God, but a tool that God allows His power through. If the Ark is destroyed, God still exists… its just a box that was destroyed.

But I agree with calvinist’s statement that what a lot of people do is like low-grade idolatry. It’s just not technically idolatry.

If someone thinks I grossly mischaracterized something.. please say so!
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