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Ipsa still giving me trouble

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Ipsa still giving me trouble

Postby pmda » Sun Nov 28, 2010 2:11 pm

Ipsa...still giving me trouble.

Explaining that the (future) child of Aemilia will not be able to know words for mother and father but instead will use 'tata' et 'mamma' Orberg in LLPSI Cap. XX says: 'Aemilia autem 'mamma' appellabitur, non 'mater', neque Iulius 'pater', sed 'tata' appellabitur; neque enim infans ipsa nomina 'patris' et 'matris' dicere poterit.

I have no clue how to translate the 2nd clause. I think it means '...for the child will not be able to say 'patris' or 'matris'.. Two questions arise:

1. Why if it means merely that the child will not be able to say the words are they in dative? I thought the point of Dative after 'dicere' is when something is being said to someone - which is not the case here?

2. Is 'ipsa' neuter acc. pl. qualifying 'nomina' (the words themselves) or is it nom. feminine. qualifying 'infans' (the child itself - though I don't know why it should be feminine)

My guess is that 'ipsa' is Neut. Acc. Plural qualifying 'nomina'.

Paul
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Re: Ipsa still giving me trouble

Postby adrianus » Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:53 pm

pmda wrote:My guess is that 'ipsa' is Neut. Acc. Plural qualifying 'nomina'. l

Yes. Ut dicis, Paule. "ipsa nomina" = "the actual words"
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Ipsa still giving me trouble

Postby rkday » Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:36 pm

pmda wrote:1. Why if it means merely that the child will not be able to say the words are they in dative? I thought the point of Dative after 'dicere' is when something is being said to someone - which is not the case here?


Paul


'patris' and 'matris' are genitives rather than datives; it's literally 'unable to say the names of "mother" and of "father"'.
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Re: Ipsa still giving me trouble

Postby pmda » Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:18 pm

In LLPSI Cap XX Exercitia Latina Orberg interrogat:

6. Num infans Aemiliae a nutrice aletur?

cui respondeo:

Infantum novum Aemiliae a ipsa aletur?

Verum est hoc verbum 'ipsa' cum 'ipsa' Aemiliam significat?
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Re: Ipsa still giving me trouble

Postby adrianus » Sun Dec 05, 2010 2:28 am

Infans novus ab Aemiliâ ipsâ aletur.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Ipsa still giving me trouble

Postby pmda » Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:22 pm

Gradius tibi ago.
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Re: Ipsa still giving me trouble

Postby furrykef » Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:08 pm

I think you mean "gratias". ;)
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Re: Ipsa still giving me trouble

Postby pmda » Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:13 pm

furrykef wrote:I think you mean "gratias". ;)


Damn that spell checker..
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Re: Ipsa still giving me trouble

Postby Perseus » Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:21 am

Have you seen this dedicated forum to LLPSI?
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11400
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Re: Ipsa still giving me trouble

Postby adrianus » Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:55 pm

Yes, —made by a spammer. Very irritating.
Id vidi,—a mercatore saginationis circumforaneo factum. Quam malè habet!
Last edited by adrianus on Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Ipsa still giving me trouble

Postby Perseus » Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:57 pm

I am sorry for that, but I am not a spammer. Just wanted to let others know about it....
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Re: Ipsa still giving me trouble

Postby adrianus » Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:02 pm

That's what spammers do, without regard to anyone else in inappropriate places for self-promotion.
Sic faciunt qui saginationem spargunt, alios negligentes in loca non apta promulgationis sui causâ.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Ipsa still giving me trouble

Postby furrykef » Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:39 pm

I think Perseus was just misguided. Let's not be too hard on him; I'd already taken him to task for it in another thread.
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Re: Ipsa still giving me trouble

Postby adrianus » Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:42 am

I didn't see that, furrykef. The threads are messed and hard to follow now.
Id non animadverti, furrykef. Fila nunc sunt perplexa seu implicata.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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