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how to understand the datives in Thuc.2.38.2?

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how to understand the datives in Thuc.2.38.2?

Postby chibibaiyun » Sun Nov 07, 2010 4:20 am

[2] ἐπεσέρχεται δὲ διὰ μέγεθος τῆς πόλεως ἐκ πάσης γῆς τὰ πάντα, καὶ ξυμβαίνει ἡμῖν μηδὲν οἰκειοτέρᾳ τῇ ἀπολαύσει τὰ αὐτοῦ ἀγαθὰ γιγνόμενα καρποῦσθαι ἢ καὶ τὰ τῶν ἄλλων

my question is focusing on the later part, I try to catch the structure as ξυμβαίνει ἡμῖν ...τὰ... καρποῦσθαι ἢ ..τὰ...; but how to understand the dative part οἰκειοτέρᾳ τῇ ἀπολαύσει?

Thanks a lot!
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Re: how to understand the datives in Thuc.2.38.2?

Postby modus.irrealis » Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:59 am

The dative part goes with καρποῦσθαι and you could translate it as "and it happens that we enjoy our own goods with an enjoyment that is no more familiar than [the one with which we enjoy] the [goods] of other peoples'." So I translated μηδὲν οἰκειοτέρᾳ τῇ ἀπολαύσει as "with an enjoyment that is no more familiar" or more freely as an adverb like "no more familiarly" (although that doesn't sound quite right in English).

Edit: got mixed up there with the negation -- it should be "no more" not "no less" since the whole point is that other peoples' goods are no less familiar than our own.
Last edited by modus.irrealis on Sun Nov 07, 2010 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: how to understand the datives in Thuc.2.38.2?

Postby chibibaiyun » Sun Nov 07, 2010 1:31 pm

a thousand thanks!

still a minor question: τὰ αὐτοῦ ἀγαθὰ γιγνόμενα means those good production of our own? here the γιγνόμενα seems very weird.
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Re: how to understand the datives in Thuc.2.38.2?

Postby modus.irrealis » Sun Nov 07, 2010 1:50 pm

chibibaiyun wrote:still a minor question: τὰ αὐτοῦ ἀγαθὰ γιγνόμενα means those good production of our own? here the γιγνόμενα seems very weird.

Yes. I was thinking of γιγνόμενον here as basically a noun meaning "what is produced", "production", "product", and so on, and ἀγαθά just being an adjective (so "goods" seemed like a decent translation).
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Re: how to understand the datives in Thuc.2.38.2?

Postby chibibaiyun » Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:56 am

goods! really a decent translation here! Thanks
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