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τὸ ὑπ᾽ ἐκείνου πάθος

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τὸ ὑπ᾽ ἐκείνου πάθος

Postby Lavrentivs » Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:21 pm

Plato, Sophist, 245 c. … τὸ ὑπ᾽ ἐκείνου πάθος … What does ἐκείνου refer to?
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Re: τὸ ὑπ᾽ ἐκείνου πάθος

Postby NateD26 » Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:11 pm

I read from 245a slowly & carefully with the help of the English translation @Perseus,
but I hope I'm not misleading you.

In the previous sentence you had:
πεπονθός τε γὰρ τὸ ὂν ἓν εἶναί πως οὐ ταὐτὸν ὂν τῷ ἑνὶ φανεῖται,
καὶ πλέονα δὴ τὰ πάντα ἑνὸς ἔσται.

The underlined participle means having had unity acted/imposed [upon it], referring to τὸ ὂν, being, as the subject.

Then, the stranger adds:
καὶ μὴν ἐάν γε τὸ ὂν ᾖ μὴ ὅλον διὰ τὸ πεπονθέναι τὸ ὑπ᾽ ἐκείνου πάθος, ᾖ δὲ αὐτὸ τὸ ὅλον,
ἐνδεὲς τὸ ὂν ἑαυτοῦ συμβαίνει.

Now the participle became articular infinitive with object πάθος and, since the verb has passive meaning, passive agent, ὑπὸ τοῦ ἑνός.
I'm assuming it's ἐκείνου because it goes further to his previous statement.
So here the underlined part means because of the attribute having been imposed [upon it] by unity.
Nate.
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Re: τὸ ὑπ᾽ ἐκείνου πάθος

Postby Lavrentivs » Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:31 pm

Thanks for your reply. I think you are right that ἐκείνου means ἑνός. (I’ve thought about this since my original post.) It seems to me, however, that your explanation of the ὑπό is mistaken. This word does not relate to the (active) verb (πάσχειν[?]), but to πάθος, which is the object of the verb. The meaning being then something in the direction of “the passion emanating from the One.” (Don’t take my choice of words too seriously.)
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Re: τὸ ὑπ᾽ ἐκείνου πάθος

Postby NateD26 » Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:54 pm

Lavrentivs wrote:It seems to me, however, that your explanation of the ὑπό is mistaken. This word does not relate to the (active) verb (πάσχειν[?]), but to πάθος, which is the object of the verb. The meaning being then something in the direction of “the passion emanating from the One.” (Don’t take my choice of words too seriously.)

I think you're right. I thought of it too after replying and it didn't make sense in my head.
The order-of-words choice supports your explanation.
Nate.
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