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Quintus Stertorius

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Quintus Stertorius

Postby phil » Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:23 pm

There are a couple of thing I'm not sure of in the story of Quintus Stertorius.

(1)
Quīntus Stertōrius, īgnōbilī locō nātus, prīma stīpendia bellō Cimbricō fēcit, in quō honōs eī virtūtis causā habitus est.

Quintus Stertorius, born of humble origins, spent his first military service in the Cimbric war, in which he was regarded an honour to him because of his courage.

If habeo meant to bestow, it would be in which an honour was awarded to him because of his courage. But I'm not optimistic, because I can't find that definition in any dictionary. What am I missing?

(2)
Quintus has convinced his men that his hind is imbued with divine abilities, and that commands to his men come from the gods through it. Goggle-eyed emoticon!

Ac sī quid dūrius vidēbātur, quod imperandum mīlitibus esset, ā cervā sēsē monitum praedicābat barbarīque statim ad omnia, tamquam dīvīnitus imperāta, oboediēbant.

And if something that needed to be commanded to the soldiers seemed rather harsh, he used to announce himself to have been advised by the deer (i.e. he used to announce that he had been advised by the deer), and the barbarians immediately complied with everything, as though the commands came from the gods.

Have I got this right? sēsē is accusative and refers to Stertorius, not ablative in agreement with cervā; and there is an esse missing or implied after monitum, which is a verb, (moneo), not a noun, (monitum).

(3)
Finally, the hind goes missing, and is thought dead, but Stertorius has found out that it is still alive, and has invited his friends (who know nothing) to his place to witness its miraculous return.

Admissīs deinde amīcīs postrīdiē vīsam sibi ait in quiēte cervam, quae perīsset, ad sē revertī et, ut prius cōnsuēvisset, quod opus esset factū, praedīcere.

The next day, when his friends had assembled, he says that the hind, which was thought to have died, to have appeared to him in a dream, and to return to himself, and that as was the habit before, to command what was needed to be done.

There's something I can't understand, and I can't quite put my finger on it, but something to do with the tense of reverti. Shouldn't it be future? Because as I read it, it saysHe says the hind to have appeared to him, and to return to him(self). But shouldn't it be He says the hind to have appeared and be going to return?

I look forward to your comments. Cheers Phil.
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Re: Quintus Stertorius

Postby adrianus » Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:22 am

(1) honour (honos non honōs) was had for him = he was held in honour, I believe // ut puto
(2) rectè dicis
(3) he says [or said] that the deer, which had been killed, having appeared to him in his sleep, comes again [or came again] to him and foretells [or foretold] what should be done as it had been in the habit of doing previously. [oratio obliqua, in quâ clausulae subditae sententiam alii exprimunt dein subjunctivum modum sumunt // reported speech, in which the subordinate clauses express another's thoughts and so take the subjunctive]
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Quintus Stertorius

Postby Imber Ranae » Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:03 am

phil wrote:(1)
Quīntus Stertōrius, īgnōbilī locō nātus, prīma stīpendia bellō Cimbricō fēcit, in quō honōs eī virtūtis causā habitus est.

Quintus Stertorius, born of humble origins, spent his first military service in the Cimbric war, in which he was regarded an honour to him because of his courage.

If habeo meant to bestow, it would be in which an honour was awarded to him because of his courage. But I'm not optimistic, because I can't find that definition in any dictionary. What am I missing?


It's just an idiom, I think, like habere gratiam + dat. = "to be thankful to"; so habere honorem + dat. = "to accord honor to". The passive construction would translate to something like "in which honor was accorded him for his valor".

phil wrote:(2)
Quintus has convinced his men that his hind is imbued with divine abilities, and that commands to his men come from the gods through it. Goggle-eyed emoticon!

Ac sī quid dūrius vidēbātur, quod imperandum mīlitibus esset, ā cervā sēsē monitum praedicābat barbarīque statim ad omnia, tamquam dīvīnitus imperāta, oboediēbant.

And if something that needed to be commanded to the soldiers seemed rather harsh, he used to announce himself to have been advised by the deer (i.e. he used to announce that he had been advised by the deer), and the barbarians immediately complied with everything, as though the commands came from the gods.

Have I got this right? sēsē is accusative and refers to Stertorius, not ablative in agreement with cervā; and there is an esse missing or implied after monitum, which is a verb, (moneo), not a noun, (monitum).


Yes, there's an implied esse. Your understanding of the syntax is sound, I think, but I would tweak a few things in your translation: According to context the comparative durius likely means "too harsh" and not "rather harsh". I also think your rendering of the imperfect as "used to" sounds a little out of place since all the main clause verbs are imperfect, not just that one. Here the imperfect is simply iterative, so perhaps use "would" instead: "And if anything that he needed to command his soldiers [ever] seemed too harsh, he would declare that he had been forewarned by the hind and at once...[etc.]"

phil wrote:(3)
Finally, the hind goes missing, and is thought dead, but Stertorius has found out that it is still alive, and has invited his friends (who know nothing) to his place to witness its miraculous return.

Admissīs deinde amīcīs postrīdiē vīsam sibi ait in quiēte cervam, quae perīsset, ad sē revertī et, ut prius cōnsuēvisset, quod opus esset factū, praedīcere.

The next day, when his friends had assembled, he says that the hind, which was thought to have died, to have appeared to him in a dream, and to return to himself, and that as was the habit before, to command what was needed to be done.

There's something I can't understand, and I can't quite put my finger on it, but something to do with the tense of reverti. Shouldn't it be future? Because as I read it, it saysHe says the hind to have appeared to him, and to return to him(self). But shouldn't it be He says the hind to have appeared and be going to return?


I would take reverti as the complement of visam [esse], i.e. "...he says that the hind, which had perished, appeared to him in a dream to return to him and, as was its habit before, to...[etc.]"
Ex mala malo
bono malo uesci
quam ex bona malo
malo malo malo.
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Re: Quintus Stertorius

Postby Imber Ranae » Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:27 am

adrianus wrote:(honos non honōs)


It's scanned honōs in Vergil:

hanc operam, ne noster honos infractaue cedat (Aeneidos liber VI, 332)
uomeris huc et falcis honos, huc omnis aratri (Aeneidos liber VI, 635)
mandemus, qui solus honos Acheronte sub imo est. (Aeneidos liber XI, 123)
tangit honos animum: spes tu nunc una, senectae (Aeneidos liber XII, 57)
tum neque nomen erat neque honos aut gloria monti (Aeneidos liber XII, 135)
addam cerea pruna—honos erit huic quoque pomo— (Ecloga II, 53) [N.B. the hiatus caused by the feminine caesura in the third foot]

I think the o in honor is only shortened because final r cannot be preceded by a long vowel.
Ex mala malo
bono malo uesci
quam ex bona malo
malo malo malo.
Imber Ranae
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Re: Quintus Stertorius

Postby adrianus » Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:46 am

Yes, I see that now in OLD. Thanks, Imber Ranae.
Ità, id nunc in OLD video. Gratias tibi, Imber Ranae.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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