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discunt a magistro

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discunt a magistro

Postby pmda » Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:39 am

In libro suo LLPSI Orberg rogat: Quid magister pueros docet?

Estne responsum rectum (cum ablativo) est: Pueri numeros et litteras discunt a magistro.
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Re: discunt a magistro

Postby Craig_Thomas » Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:55 am

pmda wrote:In libro suo LLPSI Orberg rogat: Quid magister pueros docet?

Estne responsum rectum (cum ablativo) est: Pueri numeros et litteras discunt a magistro.


I think that does work, though it is perhaps best for you to rewrite your answer with the teacher as subject. That way you are answering more directly the question asked, i.e., you are saying what the teacher teaches, not what the children learn.

To answer with the students as subject, you would most likely use a passive form of doceo as your verb.
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Re: discunt a magistro

Postby pmda » Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:59 am

Thanks: Pueri multas res magistro docentur.
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Re: discunt a magistro

Postby Craig_Thomas » Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:04 am

pmda wrote:Thanks: Pueri multas res magistro docentur.


No worries.

Though that should be "a magistro", otherwise it suggests that the teacher is teaching the children unwittingly, or against his will. There's a memorable example of this in Jones and Sidwell's Reading Latin: "uxore paene constrictus", means "almost strangled by his wife", but only "ab uxore paene constrictus" means she did it on purpose.
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Re: discunt a magistro

Postby pmda » Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:12 am

Thanks. Actually I've been wondering about that. Was about to type 'a magistro' and then decided not to. I'm not quite clear in what circumstances it is and isn't used. It seems, as you suggest, that if the relationship is purely instrumental - e.g. Puer pugnis pugnat - the boy fights with his fists. Or Iulius equo vehitur but if it's intentional in some way you get Puer a magistro verberatur. But you could have Puer baculo magistro verberatur. Is there a rule / guideline about this. Many thanks.
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Re: discunt a magistro

Postby adrianus » Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:44 am

pmda wrote:But you could have Puer baculo magistro verberatur.

Not so, unless the teacher is a puppet. // Minimè, nisi automaton magister.

Magister puerum baculo verberat. VEL Puer à magistro baculo (vel per baculum, si mavis) verberatur.

pmda wrote:Is there a rule / guideline about this.

As Craig_Thomas says // Ut dicit Craig_Thomas:
http://www.hhhh.org/perseant/libellus/aides/allgre/allgre.405.html
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=qVpMZSQacVkC&pg=PA92&lpg=PA92&dq=the+voluntary+agent+after+a+passive+verb&source=bl&ots=bM3tRPXzpr&sig=ts_MDN2ReFDquELEiBbFivpOqZk&hl=en&ei=cPeyTJC9N4ufOvqi1cUK&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBUQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=the%20voluntary%20agent%20after%20a%20passive%20verb&f=false
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: discunt a magistro

Postby pmda » Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:06 pm

Thanks Adrianus

How would I write: the boy was beaten by the master with a stick. ?

Puer cum bacculo verberatus est a magistro. ?
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Re: discunt a magistro

Postby adrianus » Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:12 pm

Jam suprà spriptum est // It is already written above:
Puer à magistro baculo * verberatur.

* The use of "per" and "cum" isn't good, really // Verum dicere, non bonum est usum "per" et "cum" praepositionum
Last edited by adrianus on Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: discunt a magistro

Postby pmda » Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:17 pm

thanks.

Puer cum bacculo verberatus est a magistro. ? would mean that the boy and the stick were beaten by the teacher....?
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Re: discunt a magistro

Postby adrianus » Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:22 pm

The boy with the stick (who had a stick) was beaten (maybe because he HAD a stick and wasn't supposed to) // Puer baculum habens verberatus est (qui forsitàn habuerit quod non habendum fuerat)
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: discunt a magistro

Postby pmda » Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:56 pm

Thanks Adrianus. Back to my studies.
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