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Mnemonic Poetry

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Mnemonic Poetry

Postby Iason Secutor » Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:27 pm

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Re: Mnemonic Poetry

Postby adrianus » Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:01 am

I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Mnemonic Poetry

Postby Iason Secutor » Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:09 pm

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Re: Mnemonic Poetry

Postby Imber Ranae » Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:44 pm

Iason Secutor wrote:Once I have the Aeneid memorized, I'll probably be in good shape. That's going to take me a while though.


...I'll say.

I admire your ambition, at any rate.
Ex mala malo
bono malo uesci
quam ex bona malo
malo malo malo.
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Re: Mnemonic Poetry

Postby Iason Secutor » Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:06 am

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Re: Mnemonic Poetry

Postby adrianus » Thu Sep 09, 2010 3:36 am

I'd like to book a ticket for that but I predict that in a year's time you'll have forgotten your ambition. :) Please prove me wrong.
Praevenditionem pro isto emere velim. Praedico autem fore ut post uni anni spatium illum honorem oblitus esses. Te amabò, ut falsus sim effice.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Mnemonic Poetry

Postby Scribo » Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:37 pm

adrianus wrote:I'd like to book a ticket for that but I predict that in a year's time you'll have forgotten your ambition. :) Please prove me wrong.
Praevenditionem pro isto emere velim. Praedico autem fore ut post uni anni spatium illum honorem oblitus esses. Te amabò, ut falsus sim effice.


Hey! I have a good amount of the first book down and am working through Iliad α for performance!

Although I have no such ambition so as to remember a whole epic, I get enough of that at the temple.
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Re: Mnemonic Poetry

Postby adrianus » Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:16 pm

scribo wrote:Hey! I have a good amount of the first book down

Coincidentally I began that too last year. That's why I understand what's involved in memorizing 12 books. Let's not celebrate until we achieve what we hope to, or underestimate the task.
Et ego hoc concursu proximo anno incepi. Id est cur intellegam quod complectatur duodecim libros memoriâ tenere. Ne canamus ante perfectum quod perficiamus, neque parvi deducamus pensum.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Mnemonic Poetry

Postby Iason Secutor » Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:35 pm

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Re: Mnemonic Poetry

Postby adrianus » Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:09 pm

Iason Secutor wrote:I recommend the books of Dominic O'Brien for starters

Thanks. I have them (pdf copies).
Gratias tibi. Eos jam habeo (editiones pdf).
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Mnemonic Poetry

Postby Iason Secutor » Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:22 am

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Re: Mnemonic Poetry

Postby adrianus » Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:47 am

Iason Secutor wrote:You set a good example
.
That's a kind thing to say, Iason Secutor.
Nimis benignus es, care Iason Secutor.

Iason Secutor wrote:A mere 10,000 lines or so. Not such a big feat for the ancients.

Note that if you re-read Yates and Carruthers you won't find anything to support that assertion, unless I'm very mistaken. It would have been a big feat to anyone then.
Nota bene: si istos libros suprà citatos de Yates et Carruthers iterùm scrutaberis, indicia quae quod dicis alunt non invenias, nisi valdè fallor. Et magnum erat gestum jam pridem.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Mnemonic Poetry

Postby Scribo » Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:55 pm

Hey if it will help with vocab retention hook me up please. Quia vocabulam meam graecam multam parvam est! Conor legere carminas Homeri (quomodo haec verba "Homer" declinatur? Solo en Lingua Graeca possum loqui) sed postquam multas oras, miminescor (sp) vocabula mea!
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Re: Mnemonic Poetry

Postby Iason Secutor » Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:58 pm

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Re: Mnemonic Poetry

Postby Iason Secutor » Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:09 pm

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Re: Mnemonic Poetry

Postby Iason Secutor » Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:24 pm

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Re: Mnemonic Poetry

Postby adrianus » Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:04 am

You also seem to believe I've only just acquired the O'Brien books and am sceptical. The person you're talking to isn't me. I was sceptical merely about things you say now you meant "tongue in cheek". Forgive me not figuring the claims were meant to be deliberately over extravagant.

Credis, ut mihi videtur, me libros O'Brien auctoris modo collegisse et incredibiles habere. Homo quem appellas non sum. Solùm praeter res quae, ut nunc dicis, sensu proprio non intendisti dubitavi. Me ignoscas quis festivissimè profusam illius quod dixisti naturam non cepissem.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Mnemonic Poetry

Postby Iason Secutor » Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:28 am

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Re: Mnemonic Poetry

Postby Iason Secutor » Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:36 am

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Re: Mnemonic Poetry

Postby adrianus » Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:29 am

By trying to create interactive, immersive 3D language-learning environments. I'm also interested in puppets and autism research in this work and anything that could be useful in this. My background is (in part) in the history and philosophy of science and I learn latin as if I were a child in the 16th century, using books and resources from then and earlier. Memory studies again come in via the role-play dimension of this active learning. I demonstrate the things I do at some conferences on simulation, gaming and learning.

Instrumenta linguae discendae immersenda et interactiva et trium dimensionum creare conor. Et automata et investigationes autismi mihi curae sunt unâ cum multis aliis rebus quae utiles esse possint. Studia historiae philosophiaeque scientiarum secutus sum (inter alia) et latinum disco sicut discipulus sexti decimi saeculi per libros auxiliaque et eius aevi et ante. Ergo ars histrionis et dein ars memoria iterum mihi momenti sunt quia hunc modum discendi vivum aptant. Quod facio demonstro quibusdem in colloquiis simulamina ludos scientiam spectantibus.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Mnemonic Poetry

Postby Iason Secutor » Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:48 am

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Re: Mnemonic Poetry

Postby adrianus » Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:29 am

No. I began this work really twenty five years ago developing games and role-play scenarios for teaching in the history of science and teaching scientific method, because i loved gaming. My interest in the art of memory area came later (in the mid-nineties) because of my research in design visualisation. I did read Yates' earlier book on Bruno around 1980.

Minimè. Ante viginti quinque annos laborem meum incepi, ludos et fabulae ad docendum historiae et modi scientiae faciens quòd ludos ludere me valdè placuit. Posteà ars memoriae mihi curae evenit quia modos videndi pro artibus deformationibus (anno millesimo nongentesimo quarto ferè) consectatus sum. Iam circa octogesimum annum quidem Iibrum de Brunone Nolae de Yates legeram, ut recordor.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Mnemonic Poetry

Postby cb » Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:24 pm

hi, in response to the original query, there’s a lot of latin mnemonic poetry devoted specifically to the gender of latin nouns. e.g. Lily wrote some verses which were burned into school childrens’ brains over centuries:

http://books.google.fr/books?id=NfEIAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA110

dr johnson remembers reciting some of these verses in a dream:

http://books.google.fr/books?id=C7dEAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA321

lots of other classicists wrote hexameter verses in latin on the gender of latin nouns, for students to repeat and memorise. If you search online for a typical opening, e.g. “MASCVLA SVNT...”, you’ll find many.

cheers, chad :)
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Re: Mnemonic Poetry

Postby Hampie » Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:35 pm

cb wrote:hi, in response to the original query, there’s a lot of latin mnemonic poetry devoted specifically to the gender of latin nouns. e.g. Lily wrote some verses which were burned into school childrens’ brains over centuries:

http://books.google.fr/books?id=NfEIAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA110

dr johnson remembers reciting some of these verses in a dream:

http://books.google.fr/books?id=C7dEAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA321

lots of other classicists wrote hexameter verses in latin on the gender of latin nouns, for students to repeat and memorise. If you search online for a typical opening, e.g. “MASCVLA SVNT...”, you’ll find many.

cheers, chad :)

Are these hexametres? Because if, man how cool aren't they?
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Re: Mnemonic Poetry

Postby Iason Secutor » Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:52 pm

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Re: Mnemonic Poetry

Postby Hampie » Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:06 pm

Iason Secutor wrote:@cb
Thanks. I enjoyed both of those links.

@Hampie
Maybe hexameters aren't cool in Sweden, but here in Wisconsin they're all the rage. :wink:

Hahaha... Most people don't even know what they are, sadly. I wish I could read them though... I never really seem to get the rhytm right, no matter how well annoted they are with all kinds of diacritics.
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Re: Mnemonic Poetry

Postby Iason Secutor » Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:34 pm

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Re: Mnemonic Poetry

Postby Iason Secutor » Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:17 pm

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Re: Mnemonic Poetry

Postby adrianus » Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:46 am

"Comenius Revisited: Vocabulary Acquisition with the Mundus Language-learning Program", Learn to Game, Game to Learn: International Simulation and Gaming Association (ISAGA), 2009, Singapore
"eLingua Latina and immersive CALL tool design", Computer Assisted Language Learning, (2007, Vol. 20, No. 4 October: 345-363).
• "Balancing Structured and Discovery Approaches to Learning: Feedback Mechanisms in a Classical-language CALL Tool", in Mayer, I & Mastik, H. (eds.), Organizing and Learning through Gaming and Simulation: Proceedings of ISAGA 2007. Delft, Eburon Delft (2007: 221-229).
PAGE 6
• "eLingua Latina: Designing a Classical-language E-learning Resource", Computer Assisted Language Learning (2006, Vol. 19, Nos. 4 & 5: 373-388).
• "Talk to the Triangle", Reality and Game & Game and Reality: Abstracts and Papers of the 37th Annual Conference of the International Simulation and Gaming Association (ISAGA), St. Petersburg State University of Engineering and Economics, 3-7 July 2006 (ISBN 5-88996-651-0).
• "eLingua Mundus: Developing a Natural-language CALL Tool", Cambridge University Schools Classics Project 40th Anniversary Conference, 7 June 2006 (conference paper).
• "eLingua Latina: Designing a Classical-language e-Learning Resource", Developing a Pedagogy for CALL: examples of Theory and Practice (paper read at UCALL conference in University of Ulster, Coleraine, 14 June 2005).

These are my papers relating to Latin. Many of the active-learning principles are common to ars memoritiva learning techniques: repetition, visualisation, reinforcement, narrative technique. Simply the vehicle changes: interactive multimedia and games.
Haec mea capitula ad latinum pertinentia. Multa principia modo vivo discendi continata et in scriptis de artibus memoritiva inveniuntur: principia repetitionis, subsidii, traductionis in imagines mentis et in narrationes. Solùm modus divulgationis instrumenta discendi, multimedia ludique enim, mutat.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Mnemonic Poetry

Postby Iason Secutor » Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:39 am

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Re: Mnemonic Poetry

Postby adrianus » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:01 am

Iason Secutor wrote:The simple answer to my question then is no, you don't actually make use of ars memorativa in your studies of Latin. Is that so hard to say?

1. Ars memorativa and the method of loci aren't synonyms. One is a technique of the other. You should remember that.
2. I don't habitually use the method of loci to memorize nouns.
3. I'm developing language-learning resources that situate objects in imaginative spaces to facilitate memory retention and learning and find that studying memory techniques such as the method of loci is useful for educational design purposes. For some reason, you imagined I knew nothing about it, whereas you had recently read some books about it. I was pointing out that I did know something about it.
I'm sorry if you don't understand what I'm saying. I'm trying to write clearly and tell you what I am doing only because you asked. Otherwise I wouldn't bother boring you with autobiography.

Primum. Ars memorativa et modus locorum synonyma non sunt. Alter modus est alteri. Id tibi memorandum est.
Secundum. Ego rarò modo locorum in nominum tenendo memoriâ utor.
Tertium. Instrumenta discendi quae res in locis memorabilibus ponant creo. Sic in faciendo studium artis memorativae in quo modum locorum includo utile ad apparationem mihi est, ut invenio. Ratione incertâ, anteà credisti me rem ignorare; tu autem libros de hâc re modo legeras. Id falsum esse dicere volui.
Te non intellegere quod dico me paenitet. Clarè scribere tento. Rogasti, respondi; aliter me odiosum apparere ob res autobographicas non voluerim.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Mnemonic Poetry

Postby Iason Secutor » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:43 am

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Re: Mnemonic Poetry

Postby Iason Secutor » Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:05 am

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Re: Mnemonic Poetry

Postby Iason Secutor » Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:56 am

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Re: Mnemonic Poetry

Postby adrianus » Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:31 pm

From what you say, you sound wonderful. I disappoint you and you want me to account for it. How far does the frustrated prophet travel to become fanatic? Why did Frances Yates not often herself practice the techniques she wrote about? Isn't it because she had other stories to tell first? I have other stories to tell first.

De quo dicis, mirè sonas. Te frustror et me rationes aequare vis. Quoad propheta frustrata ambulat ante fit fanatica? Cur technicas de quibus ipsa scripta est non saepè sequatur Frances Yates? Nonnè sic erat quia ea habebat alias fabulas narrandas. Et ego.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Mnemonic Poetry

Postby Iason Secutor » Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:29 pm

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Re: Mnemonic Poetry

Postby Scribo » Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:56 pm

Ita!, O Adriane, certii face nos de ludo tuo! estne ludo?
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Re: Mnemonic Poetry

Postby adrianus » Sun Sep 12, 2010 6:44 pm

You ask me, Scribo, to tell you about Fabula, I think, which is indeed a game,—or will be, at least. I don't want to tell much about it until at least next July possibly. I want more to be done to demonstrate. It might be rubbish as a game and as a learning tool. We'll see. It's about an immortal who becomes human and a human who becomes immortal.

Me rogas, "Fac nos certos de programmate Fabula nomine", credo, quod verè ludus est vel saltem erit. Non volo multum dicere ante mensem quidem Julii proximum. Plus profici ante id demonstrem volo. Forsit malum ut instrumentum discendi ut ludus erit. Videbimus. Immortalem spectat qui fit homo et hominem qui fit immortal.
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I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Mnemonic Poetry

Postby Scribo » Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:09 pm

adrianus wrote:You ask me, Scribo, to tell you about Fabula, I think, which is indeed a game,—or will be, at least. I don't want to tell much about it until at least next July possibly. I want more to be done to demonstrate. It might be rubbish as a game and as a learning tool. We'll see. It's about an immortal who becomes human and a human who becomes immortal.

Me rogas, "Fac nos certos de programmate Fabula nomine", credo, quod verè ludus est vel saltem erit. Non volo multum dicere ante mensem quidem Julii proximum. Plus profici ante id demonstrem volo. Forsit malum ut instrumentum discendi ut ludus erit. Videbimus. Immortalem spectat quis fit homo et hominem quis fit immortal.


Bene, meum certum faciebam! Credo ego ut erit bonam instrumentam. Spero.
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