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Pliny

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Pliny

Postby Einhard » Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:31 pm

Salvete iterum, (is it correct to use "iterum" in the sense of again, in this context?),

I've taken something of a leap and started translating some unadulterated Latin writings (although since they're from Wheelock's Reader, maybe it's not so great of a leap!), and would like some suggestions on the following sentences from Pliny the Younger:

Ita enim fiet ut eas quae adhuc neglectae iacent requiram et, si quas addidero, non supprimam.

For it shall be done as follows that I shall search for those neglected til now andthey will be cast/mentioned, if I I shall write more, I will not surpress.

postquam in Laurentino meo aut lego aliquid aut scribo aut etiam corpori vaco, cuius fulturis animus sustinetur

when in my Laurentian estate I either read something or write or devote myself to the body, by the support of which the mind is sustained
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Re: Pliny

Postby Essorant » Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:37 pm

Iacent should be active:

Ita enim fiet ut eas quae adhuc neglectae iacent requiram et, si quas addidero, non supprimam.
So indeed it will be done, that those which hereto neglected lie I shall seek and, if (they are ones) which I shall add, I will not hold back.
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Re: Pliny

Postby adrianus » Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:57 pm

Only the first seems a little odd, I would think, Einhard. // Prima sola, Einharde, sententia mihi paulò aliena videtur.

"It may thus happen that I may need [/be missing] some things that still are lying/left ignored and which I will not keep back when I [will] have added them. [i.e., as soon as I have got a hold of them I'll publish (possibly) them,—if that's the context // si ita ad contextum pertinet]"

I didn't see Essorant's post and now I see it's "fiet" and not "fiat", so his is better, plus "if I will add some".
Epistulam de Essorant ignoravi quae nunc visa meliorem aestimo quià "fiet" non "fiat" scribitur, quod non animadverti, non minùs "if I will add some".
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Pliny

Postby Imber Ranae » Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:23 pm

The previous sentences are quite necessary to really grasp the full context.

Frequenter hortatus es ut epistulas, si quas paulo curatius scripsissem, colligerem publicaremque. Collegi non servato temporis ordine (neque enim historiam componebam), sed ut quaeque in manus venerat. Superest ut nec te consilii nec me paeniteat obsequii. Ita enim fiet, ut eas quae adhuc neglectae iacent requiram et si quas addidero non supprimam. Vale.


"You have frequently encouraged me to collect and publish my letters, provided I had written some with a bit more care. I did not gather them in any maintained chronological order (for neither was I compiling a history), but according as each had come into my possession. It remains for you not to regret your advice, and for me not to regret my indulgence. For it will indeed happen that I'll be searching back through those letters which have hitherto lain neglected, and any more I may add I won't keep to myself. Farewell."
Ex mala malo
bono malo uesci
quam ex bona malo
malo malo malo.
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Re: Pliny

Postby adrianus » Thu Feb 25, 2010 2:45 pm

Einhard wrote:Salvete iterum, (is it correct to use "iterum" in the sense of again, in this context?)

I reckon it is, Einhard, or I don't know why not, or using "denuò" "rursùs" "de integro". I think "Iterùm salvete" sounds more natural (unless you acute "Salvete iterúm"), but what do I know?

Est rectum, Einharde, ut puto; saltem cur non sit ignoro, non minùs per "denuò" "rursùs" "de integro". "Iterùm salvete" auribus plus placet, ut opinor, nisi acuto accento dicitur "Salvete iterúm", at quid scio?
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Pliny

Postby JPKerpan » Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:46 pm

I am sorry this is a little late, but here is my translation (for what it is worth):
Frequently you have urged me to collect the letters that I had written a little more carefully and publish them. I have gathered them, not preserved in chronological order (because I am not composing a history), but as each came into my hand. All that remains is that you should not regret your advice, and I should not regret following it. Here's what will happen: I will seek out those letters that until how have been ignored, and If I had any, I will not withhold them.
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Re: Pliny

Postby adrianus » Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:47 pm

It reads very nicely, JPKerpan
Pulcherrimè dicitur, JPKerpan
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Pliny

Postby Scribo » Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:54 pm

Why am I so bad? for ita enim fiet ut eas quae adhuc neglectae iacent requiram et, si quas addidero, non supprimam. I got

For thus it may be done like those which until now (and then it gets insane) have been thrown neglected (?) and if these I (something) I am not suprised.

How did I fail so bad? can any one spot from that where the hell I'm going wrong? how did you get your elegent pieces? What the hell is neglectae doing?
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Re: Pliny

Postby adrianus » Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:22 pm

ut = that && as
supprimam != I am surprised; = I will suppress
iacent != they throw (jaciunt); = they lie
quae adhuc neglectae jacent = which still lie neglected
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Pliny

Postby Imber Ranae » Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:40 pm

Scribo wrote:Why am I so bad? for ita enim fiet ut eas quae adhuc neglectae iacent requiram et, si quas addidero, non supprimam. I got

For thus it may be done like those which until now (and then it gets insane) have been thrown neglected (?) and if these I (something) I am not suprised.

How did I fail so bad? can any one spot from that where the hell I'm going wrong? how did you get your elegent pieces? What the hell is neglectae doing?


First, fiet is future indicative, not present subjunctive (which would be fiat). This verb frequently means just "happen" rather than a specifically passive "be done". I suppose you could translate it here either way, though.

After that, I'm not sure where you're getting "like" from. Is that how you're taking ut? That might work if the verbs following it were indicative, but requiram and supprimam are subjunctive. Rather, this is a consecutive (aka result) clause, as is usually the case when ut is preceded by a word like ita. The two subsequent present subjunctive verbs which contain the "result" are best translated with the future tense in English, however.

Next, as Adrianus says, you're confusing iaceo "lie" (2nd conj.) with iacio "throw" (3rd conj.); the two can be easily distinguished in most cases by the presence or absence of the letter i in the stem.

For the last part, remember the mnemonic "after si, nisi, num, and ne, all the ali-'s fall away". Also, the verb addidero is future perfect, so si quas addidero literally means "if I shall have added some/any [letters]..." (litteras is implied from the previous clause). Finally, non supprimam = "...I won't suppress [them]", meaning he won't fail to publish any further letters he may write.

Does that help you any?
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quam ex bona malo
malo malo malo.
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