Esse aut esse non...

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jamesbath
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Esse aut esse non...

Post by jamesbath »

Salvete,

Esse aut esse non, illa quaestio est = To be or not to be, that is the question.

Is the Latin correct in the above equation?

Gratias vobis ago.

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Hampie
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Re: Esse aut esse non...

Post by Hampie »

Esse aut nón esse, quod est quaesítum.

Is my try, though I cannot find a word in any dictionary that gives me a good word for 'question' :/...
Här kan jag i alla fall skriva på svenska, eller hur?

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furrykef
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Re: Esse aut esse non...

Post by furrykef »

jamesbath wrote:Esse aut esse non, illa quaestio est
I haven't seen "non" appear after a verb instead of before it, but I've yet to read much 'real' Latin.
Hampie wrote:though I cannot find a word in any dictionary that gives me a good word for 'question' :/
Cassell's suggests this for question: "quaestio, rogatio (rarer), interrogatum". It then gives several examples with quaestio: questionem [pro]ponere (to pose a question); "magna questio est".

It goes on to say that the word is often better than a verb, e.g., to ask a question = [inter]rogare; the question now is = nunc id quaeritur; etc. -- perhaps "illud quaeritur" for "that is the question"?

But, of course, there is usually more than one right way to say something in any given language.
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Imber Ranae
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Re: Esse aut esse non...

Post by Imber Ranae »

This is an indirect question, so an infinitive would not be appropriate in Latin. In the original English the infinitive shows obligation, but it's being used in a question, i.e. asking whether one ought to be [read: live] or not.

Thus I would translate it: Vivendum sit necne sit, id quaeritur.

Cf. Cicero: ...fiat necne fiat, id quaeritur. "Whether it happens or does not happen, that is the question."
[de Divinatione liber I, § 86]
Ex mala malo
bono malo uesci
quam ex bona malo
malo malo malo.

adrianus
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Re: Esse aut esse non...

Post by adrianus »

That's lovely, I think, Imber Ranae.
Id valdè placet, Imber Ranae, meâ sententiâ.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.

jamesbath
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Re: Esse aut esse non...

Post by jamesbath »

Imber Ranae wrote:This is an indirect question, so an infinitive would not be appropriate in Latin. In the original English the infinitive shows obligation, but it's being used in a question, i.e. asking whether one ought to be [read: live] or not.

Thus I would translate it: Vivendum sit necne sit, id quaeritur.

Cf. Cicero: ...fiat necne fiat, id quaeritur. "Whether it happens or does not happen, that is the question."
[de Divinatione liber I, § 86]
Very nice, I think. I assume the gerundive "Vivendum" qualifies each option in the phrase "sit necne sit". But I wonder why you didn't translate that as "sim necne sim". Is not Hamlet wondering what he himself, in the first person, should do?

jamesbath
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Re: Esse aut esse non...

Post by jamesbath »

furrykef wrote:
jamesbath wrote:Esse aut esse non, illa quaestio est
I haven't seen "non" appear after a verb instead of before it, but I've yet to read much 'real' Latin.
Thanks for pointing that out.

adrianus
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Re: Esse aut esse non...

Post by adrianus »

jamesbath wrote:But I wonder why you [Imber Ranae] didn't translate that as "sim necne sim". Is not Hamlet wondering what he himself, in the first person, should do?
Vivo is intransitive. It can't have an direct objective, so you can't have "vivendus sim" "whether I should be lived",—which doesn't, in any case, make sense. Rather "Mihi vivendum est" = "I should live" ("mihi vivendum sit" as an indirect question) ,—and "mihi" can be omitted and still understood.

Intransitivum verbum est "vivo", id est, objecto directo non conjungitur, quâre non exstat "vivendus sim" (quod jam nugas dicit). Immò "mihi vivendum est" dicendum est ("mihi vivendum sit" ut quaestio obliqua), in quo "mihi" pronomen ut res levis omittatur.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.

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Re: Esse aut esse non...

Post by Kasper »

I appreciate there is no gerundive for 'esse', but Mr H did not say that 'to live or not to live' is the question. Is there no better translation for 'to be'? (I can't think of any, but my knowledge is most limited.)
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”

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furrykef
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Re: Esse aut esse non...

Post by furrykef »

Kasper wrote:Mr H did not say that 'to live or not to live' is the question.
Mr. H also wasn't speaking in Latin. ;) Sometimes ideas cannot be translated literally. Whether this is such a case or not, I don't know, but it's a possibility one must always be prepared to accept.
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Re: Esse aut esse non...

Post by Kasper »

Hi FK,

as a dutchman living in Australia, I am all too familiar with the fact that not all ideas and expressions can be translated literally from one to another. It is a daily reality for me, and one I wholeheartedly accept.

The question is whether there is no better word, or method, to translate 'to be' than by rendering it as 'to live'. I am equally willing to accept, wholeheartedly, that there may be not; but I thought I'd pose the question.

K
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”

adrianus
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Re: Esse aut esse non...

Post by adrianus »

to be = esse, existere, fieri, fore
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.

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