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ἀγαπῶ

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ἀγαπῶ

Postby modus.irrealis » Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:16 pm

Hi,

I remember reading somewhere (on the B-Greek list I think) about there being evidence that ἀγαπῶ could be used as a euphemism for something along the lines of "chide" and may have been a Semitism. But I can't find anything anywhere on this now, so does anyone know about this or something that's even vaguely similar, or am I "remembering" things that never happened?
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Re: ἀγαπῶ

Postby jaihare » Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:16 am

modus.irrealis wrote:Hi,

I remember reading somewhere (on the B-Greek list I think) about there being evidence that ἀγαπῶ could be used as a euphemism for something along the lines of "chide" and may have been a Semitism. But I can't find anything anywhere on this now, so does anyone know about this or something that's even vaguely similar, or am I "remembering" things that never happened?


Are thinking of John 21? I've got some opinions about that passage. If you're going there, I'd love to lay them out for you.

Jason
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ὁ μὲν Παῦλος τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις μαθητὰς τὴν χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνην τὴν ἐν Χριστῷ ἐδίδασκεν, οἱ δ᾿ ἄλλοι ἀπόστολοι τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἐδίδασκον τηρεῖν τὸν θεῖον νόμον τὸν χειρὶ Μωϋσέως δοθέντα.
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Re: ἀγαπῶ

Postby modus.irrealis » Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:51 pm

jaihare wrote:Are thinking of John 21? I've got some opinions about that passage. If you're going there, I'd love to lay them out for you.

To be honest, I can't remember what it was -- possibly Mark 10:21. It was a very minor thing.
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Re: ἀγαπῶ

Postby jaihare » Sat Aug 14, 2010 11:26 pm

modus.irrealis wrote:
jaihare wrote:Are thinking of John 21? I've got some opinions about that passage. If you're going there, I'd love to lay them out for you.

To be honest, I can't remember what it was -- possibly Mark 10:21. It was a very minor thing.


ὁ δὲ Ἰησοῦς ἐμβλέψας αὐτῷ ἠγάπησεν αὐτὸν καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ· ἕν σε ὑστερεῖ· ὕπαγε, ὅσα ἔχεις πώλησον καὶ δὸς [τοῖς] πτωχοῖς, καὶ ἕξεις θησαυρὸν ἐν οὐρανῷ, καὶ δεῦρο ἀκολούθει μοι.
And Jesus, having looked upon him, loved him and said to him: "One thing is holding you back - go, whatever you have sell and give to the poor, and you will have a treasure in heaven, and follow me here."

I don't see a reason to think that ἠγάπησεν would mean anything other than "he loved". What gave you a different impression?

This kinda ties with my opinion of John 20 -- that ἀγαπάω is a lower form of love than φιλέω, which is relationship-based. I think ἀγαπάω is more emotion-based and doesn't require any kind of relationship to feel. It's more compassion-type love than love that subsists in a personal connection. It's like saying "Jesus felt something for him" or "had compassion on him".

That's my opinion, anyway.

ἔρρωσο,
Ἰάσων
Jason Hare
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ὁ μὲν Παῦλος τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις μαθητὰς τὴν χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνην τὴν ἐν Χριστῷ ἐδίδασκεν, οἱ δ᾿ ἄλλοι ἀπόστολοι τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἐδίδασκον τηρεῖν τὸν θεῖον νόμον τὸν χειρὶ Μωϋσέως δοθέντα.
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Re: ἀγαπῶ

Postby modus.irrealis » Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:43 pm

jaihare wrote:I don't see a reason to think that ἠγάπησεν would mean anything other than "he loved". What gave you a different impression?

I really wouldn't have thought of any other possibility if I hadn't thought I had come across something about ἀγαπῶ having another meaning, but that meaning seems to fit the context, if he were gently rebuking the guy for his answer for example.

This kinda ties with my opinion of John 20 -- that ἀγαπάω is a lower form of love than φιλέω, which is relationship-based. I think ἀγαπάω is more emotion-based and doesn't require any kind of relationship to feel. It's more compassion-type love than love that subsists in a personal connection. It's like saying "Jesus felt something for him" or "had compassion on him".

That's an interesting topic, which maybe we can discuss once I get settled down (I'm in the middle of moving). My feeling is that the two words are almost perfect synonyms and the NT was written during a time where ἀγαπῶ was replacing φιλῶ but had not yet done so completely (at least in the sense of love, since φιλῶ survived with the meaning "kiss"), so I'm a little skeptical about trying to make distinctions between the two, though not so skeptical that I couldn't be convinced otherwise.
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