As I'm editing the text of this book, I have come across a sentence which I would like to get some input on. The original says:
"The judge, by the way, was the King; and, as he wore his crown over the wig, he did not look at all comfortable, and it was certainly not becoming."
This was rendered into Latin as follows:
"Iudex vero erat Rex; cumque coronam super capillamento gereret, aliquantum incommodi perpeti visus est, eaque satis inepta specie erat."
But that ending phrase seems very contrieved to me; it must be an ablativus qualitatis: "... and this rather silly appearance he had." Instead, I'm inclined to believe that specie is a typo for species; the meaning would then be "... and this was a rather silly sight" with "ea" agreeing with "species" by attraction.
Would you agree, or is the original wording defensible? I'm afraid of missing something obvious here.
A sentence from Alicia in Terra Mirabili
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Re: A sentence from Alicia in Terra Mirabili
Minimè. Bonum est, ut opinor, Alati.Alatius wrote:Would you agree, or is the original wording defensible?
"specie" = "to all appearances"
"...eaque satis inepta specie erat." = 'and it ["corona super capillamento"] was pretty inappropriate to all appearances"
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: A sentence from Alicia in Terra Mirabili
Ah! Thank you; I'm very glad I asked: evidently I was too fixed on my initial interpretation. So, if I understand you correctly, you are proposing is that ea(que) is nominative singular feminine, agreeing with corona, and in turn that inepta is then nominative as well? If so, I would interpret specie (into perhaps less idiomatic English) as "with regards to appearance", but I guess the gist is the same.
Since I'm evidently not infallible (heh!), I might as well ask about another sentence:
"... she was now about two feet high and was going on shrinking rapidly: she soon found out that the cause of this was the fan she was holding..."
"... Mox repperit causae esse flabellum quod teneret..."
I can't parse that, being pretty confident that causae should be causam. Or?
Since I'm evidently not infallible (heh!), I might as well ask about another sentence:
"... she was now about two feet high and was going on shrinking rapidly: she soon found out that the cause of this was the fan she was holding..."
"... Mox repperit causae esse flabellum quod teneret..."
I can't parse that, being pretty confident that causae should be causam. Or?
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Re: A sentence from Alicia in Terra Mirabili
Yes indeed.Alatius wrote:You are proposing...
Rectè supponis: id quidem propono.
I like "in causâ esse flabellum" but Terence says "causae" // Sic dicam at aliter "causae" dici potest, secundum Terentium:Alatius wrote:I can't parse that, being pretty confident that causae should be causam. Or?
+ "quid causae est quin..." apud Terentium HoratiumqueTerence, [i]Phormio[/i], 874,5 wrote:"aliquid credito, Phormio, esse causae."
"[You can] Believe, Phormio, something is the cause [of it]"
Last edited by adrianus on Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: A sentence from Alicia in Terra Mirabili
Ignosce mihi tantum Anglice scribenti, quaeso...
Hm, interesting, but what is the grammatical structure here? Is that a partitive genitive? Wouldn't a closer translation then be "There is some(thing of) reason"? In that case this example is not parallel to "mox repperit causae esse flabellum", is it?Terence, [i]Phormio[/i], 874,5 wrote:"aliquid credito, Phormio, esse causae."
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Re: A sentence from Alicia in Terra Mirabili
Forsit sicut haec:
"id mihi curae est" "That's of interest to me"
seu "non flocci facio" "I don't give a straw [bit of wool]."
Almost like genitive of quality.
Ferè simile est casûs genetivi qualitatis.
Aliquid credito, Phormio, esse causae.
Flabellum credito, Phormio, esse causae.
A scarf may cause, but may not be a cause, but can be of a cause [belong to a cause].
Flabellum aliquid evenire faciat; non sicut autem causa id existare, at aptiùs causae esse potest.
"id mihi curae est" "That's of interest to me"
seu "non flocci facio" "I don't give a straw [bit of wool]."
Almost like genitive of quality.
Ferè simile est casûs genetivi qualitatis.
Aliquid credito, Phormio, esse causae.
Flabellum credito, Phormio, esse causae.
A scarf may cause, but may not be a cause, but can be of a cause [belong to a cause].
Flabellum aliquid evenire faciat; non sicut autem causa id existare, at aptiùs causae esse potest.
Last edited by adrianus on Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: A sentence from Alicia in Terra Mirabili
I think you might be right... I found a quote from Livy that is about as close you can come:
You learn something new every day! I wonder though if this might not in fact be a dative form.Ab Urbe Condita 38.52 wrote:... L. Scipio morbum causae esse, cur [P. Scipio] abesset, excusabat.
"Lucius Scipio gave as excuse that sickness was the reason why he [Publius] was absent."
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Re: A sentence from Alicia in Terra Mirabili
offtopic:
Wow ! Alice in wonderland in Latin!! id est mirificus !
Wondering; what is the relative difficult of it as a text to read, as in beginners first reads ---> intermediate ----> advanced?
Wow ! Alice in wonderland in Latin!! id est mirificus !
Wondering; what is the relative difficult of it as a text to read, as in beginners first reads ---> intermediate ----> advanced?
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Re: A sentence from Alicia in Terra Mirabili
Say "dative possessive" and we'll be back at genitive.Avitius wrote:...if this might not in fact be a dative form.
Possessivum dativum dicito et ad genetivum redibimus.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.