could someone kindly help translate this?
η πολλα βροτοις εστιν ιδουσιν
γνωναι. πριν ιδειν δ' ουδεις μαντις
των μελλων ο τι πραξει
All I can manage is something like .......Indeed, I know/recognize that mortals see many things/events
Before seeing, no prophet (implies "knows" or "can foretell")
What of fated events will happen
I find such maxims to be tricky because of the special uses of language involved and the
often omitted or implied words....
any advice much appreciated, thank you
trans quote from Sophocles??
-
- Textkit Neophyte
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:18 pm
-
- Textkit Neophyte
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:23 pm
Re: trans quote from Sophocles??
Let's have a go:
η πολλα βροτοις εστιν ιδουσιν
γνωναι. πριν ιδειν δ' ουδεις μαντις
των μελλων ο τι πραξει
In truth, it is (possibly sc. 'possible' - the metre might not have permitted εξεστιν) for mortals to see and know many things. But before seeing, no prophet (presumably, as you say, sc. 'knows') which of the things-about-to-be-done he will perform.
I don't think it can be "I know/recognize that mortals see many things/events" because "γνωναι" is an infinitive - it's "to know", not "I know".
Can you give the original source of the quote? Context and accentuation might be helpful.
η πολλα βροτοις εστιν ιδουσιν
γνωναι. πριν ιδειν δ' ουδεις μαντις
των μελλων ο τι πραξει
In truth, it is (possibly sc. 'possible' - the metre might not have permitted εξεστιν) for mortals to see and know many things. But before seeing, no prophet (presumably, as you say, sc. 'knows') which of the things-about-to-be-done he will perform.
I don't think it can be "I know/recognize that mortals see many things/events" because "γνωναι" is an infinitive - it's "to know", not "I know".
Can you give the original source of the quote? Context and accentuation might be helpful.
-
- Textkit Zealot
- Posts: 789
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:14 am
- Contact:
Re: trans quote from Sophocles??
Ajax, Lines 1418-20
{ΧΟ.} Ἦ πολλὰ βροτοῖς ἔστιν ἰδοῦσιν
γνῶναι· πρὶν ἰδεῖν δ' οὐδεὶς μάντις
τῶν μελλόντων ὅ τι πράξει.
Nate.
-
- Textkit Zealot
- Posts: 789
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:14 am
- Contact:
Re: trans quote from Sophocles??
{ΧΟ.} Ἦ πολλὰ βροτοῖς ἔστιν ἰδοῦσιν
γνῶναι· πρὶν ἰδεῖν δ' οὐδεὶς μάντις
τῶν μελλόντων ὅ τι πράξει.
γνῶναι· πρὶν ἰδεῖν δ' οὐδεὶς μάντις
τῶν μελλόντων ὅ τι πράξει.
- Many things can be known (i.e. it is possible for them to know) for mortals upon seeing (them),
but no one can be a fore-teller/can predict whichever of future events will happen before seeing (it happens).
Nate.
-
- Textkit Zealot
- Posts: 789
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:14 am
- Contact:
Re: trans quote from Sophocles??
I see that I was wrong in my initial translation and according to English translation by R. C. Jebb, there is a comma after τῶν μελλόντων
(he refers to Antigone 1160 where he translated a genitive in a similar construct as "about, concerning") and in his notes, ὅ τι πράξει is
translated as "how he (himself) shall fare".
[English translations and Notes @Perseus.]
(he refers to Antigone 1160 where he translated a genitive in a similar construct as "about, concerning") and in his notes, ὅ τι πράξει is
translated as "how he (himself) shall fare".
[English translations and Notes @Perseus.]
- It is possible for mortals to know/learn many things by seeing (them), but before seeing it happens,
no one can be a prophet concerning future events, [or]* how he shall fare.
Nate.
Re: trans quote from Sophocles??
I think the or is just the translator using poetic license. The phrase when translated into English is weak.* I do not understand the addition of or in his translation.
I translate the whole thing as something literally like:
there are many mortals that come to know by seeing
but there is no foreteller that knows before (it happens) of the future, what (action) might happened.
I would probably pretty it up by saying:
There are many men that know by sight but no one can see what might happen in the future.
just my $.02