Textkit Logo

Adjectives before preposition in the Ablative Case

Here's where you can discuss all things Latin. Use this board to ask questions about grammar, discuss learning strategies, get translation help and more!

Moderator: thesaurus

Adjectives before preposition in the Ablative Case

Postby Vitance » Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:43 pm

It was made clear to me that when using the ablative of manner with a noun defined by an adjective, the adjective can come before the preposition if the preposition is monosyllabic. A well-known example of this is of course magna cum laude. I also know that 'cum' can be omitted altogether.

But what I'm curious about, since I'm not well read in Latin, is whether this same rule might apply in other uses of the ablative. I've seen the expression "tantum alto in monte relictis" (again, I don't really know enough Latin to determine whether that's enough to make sense of what that means, so pardon my ignorance), and it seems tantum can't be defined by 'in', and relictis throws me off, since I'm not able to be entirely sure of its meaning. Is it some kind of declension of the perfect passive participle of relinquo?

But most importantly, 'alto' is in the ablative, so it seems like it can't mean "high in the mountain," but must mean "in the high mountain," which would suggest the same rule as in the ablative of means.

Put simply, my question is to what extent does the rule go? In how many cases, how many examples, can the adjective precede the preposition? Would magna in nave mean "in the large ship"? Would lato ab agro mean "from the wide field"? Furthermore, would pulchrum ad oppidum means "to the beautiful town"? I'm sceptical, but I do need this made clear for me.

Thank you VERY much in advance for any help I receive.
User avatar
Vitance
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:39 pm

Re: Adjectives before preposition in the Ablative Case

Postby furrykef » Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:59 pm

Yeah, I've seen this used with other prepositions, so I think "altō in monte" must be the same as "in altō monte".

I think "tantum" probably means "only". My guess is that "relictīs" is a dative here (like "Sīc semper tyrannīs!"), which indeed comes from relinquō (so it would mean "those who were left behind"). There must be some broader context that's missing, though...

Alternatively, it may be some kind of ablative absolute construction, though, like "With only them left behind on the tall mountain"... I'd really need to see the context.
Founder of Learning Languages Through Video Games.
I also have a lang-8 journal where I practice Spanish and Japanese.
User avatar
furrykef
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 365
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2010 7:18 am

Re: Adjectives before preposition in the Ablative Case

Postby Vitance » Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:01 am

Thank you very much; that definitely cleared things up. I don't know why I did not think of that meaning for "relictis."

Otherwise, I don't know that the context of the piece matters more than that, since it was just an example of that usage; however, it's from an Idyl entitled "Cupido et Pan," and immediately before the preposition 'de' is used twice with two different nouns:

...De grege, de nivibus, tantum alto in monte relictis,
Nec sensit magis ac perstrico cortice suber.



I have a feeling it begins abruptly, already out of context, but it appears "tantum" is finally put into context? And suddenly "relictis" looks like an ablative modified by 'de'. But unless the context changes that "alto in monte" looks the same as "in alto monte," my main question is definitely answered, so thank you again. Come to think, I would like the know the exact meaning of "tantum" as it is now. "Down from the crowd, down from the snows, only[?] left behind on the high mountain..."?
User avatar
Vitance
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:39 pm


Return to Learning Latin

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], naturalphilosopher and 62 guests