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Pl. Ap. 23b1-2

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Pl. Ap. 23b1-2

Postby NateD26 » Thu Jul 15, 2010 3:37 pm


ἐμὲ παράδειγμα ποιούμενος, ὥσπερ ἂν <εἰ> εἴποι ὅτι...

Smyth says in 2478 that ὥσπερ ἂν εἰ is used with the optative "commonly when τίς is the subject",
and that ὥσπερ ἂν "represents the suppressed apodosis (here a potential optative) to the condition with εἰ".

What is the suppressed apodosis here?
This commentary (p.120 B.) suggests it was something with ποιούμενος.
Maybe something like this: ὥσπερ ἄν τις ποιοῖ εἰ εἴποι » "just as (one might make) if one would say that..." ?
Nate.
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Re: Pl. Ap. 23b1-2

Postby modus.irrealis » Thu Jul 15, 2010 4:33 pm

Except that it should be middle ποιοῖτο. I don't think that τις here is the subject, though, but the god -- I think there would have to be an explicit τις
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Re: Pl. Ap. 23b1-2

Postby NateD26 » Thu Jul 15, 2010 4:40 pm

modus.irrealis wrote:Except that it should be middle ποιοῖτο.

Thank you. The meaning of the active and middle of ποιῶ is pretty much the same though, right?
I have a similar problem translating the middle of λέγω in 23a: ὄνομα δὲ τοῦτο λέγεσθαι.
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Re: Pl. Ap. 23b1-2

Postby modus.irrealis » Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:33 pm

Yes, ποιῶ in the active and the middle can have a similar meaning, but I don't believe they're interchangeable. Here I'm confident it should be middle just because of ποιούμενος :D.

I would say λέγεσθαι is passive there, "to be called by this name".
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Re: Pl. Ap. 23b1-2

Postby NateD26 » Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:04 pm

modus.irrealis wrote:Yes, ποιῶ in the active and the middle can have a similar meaning, but I don't believe they're interchangeable. Here I'm confident it should be middle just because of ποιούμενος :D.

You right, modus. I should pay more attention. :)

modus.irrealis wrote:I would say λέγεσθαι is passive there, "to be called by this name".

Thanks. I'm getting tripped by passive constructions sometimes:
to call x y (active - double acc.); x is called y (passive - nom.)
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Re: Pl. Ap. 23b1-2

Postby modus.irrealis » Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:16 pm

NateD26 wrote:Thanks. I'm getting tripped by passive constructions sometimes:
to call x y (active - double acc.); x is called y (passive - nom.)

Yes, although there are some verbs that keep the second accusative in the passive, depending on the meaning.
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