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scire + infinitive

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scire + infinitive

Postby possiblymaybe » Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:51 am

Hello, I'm having difficulty translating a few verses that have the verb scire combined with an infinitive. The context is a 14th-century panegyric addressed to a king. How does one usually go about translating scire + infintive? my instinct here is to translate it as "to know that..." I'd be grateful for any help with this, thanks!

nemo potest sane sicut tu rex quia vane
blanditie fugiunt te vel adesse sciunt
vel si te scire metuunt vel forte venire
[Lacuna]

My take on this is, roughly:

Truly, no one can do this as you can, oh king, because false compliments avoid you or know that you would be alert, or they fear that if you knew you would perhaps come...
Last edited by possiblymaybe on Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: scire + infinitive

Postby furrykef » Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:31 pm

My Latin is intermediate at best, but I would say your hunch with "scire + infinitive" is probably correct here. "Scire + infinitive" can also mean "to know how to [verb]", but that doesn't seem to apply here. Still, I'm having a lot of trouble understanding the passage.

I wonder why "sicut" is followed by "te" rather than "tu". In fact, I googled the phrase "Nemo potest sane sicut" (in quotes) and it came up with only one result, which followed it with "tu". It ended there, though... it didn't go on to "quia, vane blanditie..." Assuming you typed in the Latin correctly, maybe it's an error due to taking "sicut" as a preposition instead of a conjunction. If so, then I have to wonder about the correctness of the rest of it as well.

I guess I can't do much more but wait for somebody else's opinion...
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Re: scire + infinitive

Postby possiblymaybe » Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:36 am

Thanks for your reply! I double checked it and there were two typos (te instead of tu, and the commas which are not original). Sorry about that.
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Re: scire + infinitive

Postby adrianus » Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:09 pm

Same thing posted twice. Sorry.
Bis eandem epistulam misi. Me paenitet.
Last edited by adrianus on Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: scire + infinitive

Postby adrianus » Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:09 pm

Salve forteforsit

I reckon your translation is good (where non-classical vane blanditie = vanae blanditiae, as you say). Note "sciunt" can mean "they are assured that" as in "they can be assured that"
Bona mihi equidem videtur tua versio. Habes etiam anglicè "be assured that" pro "scito" verbo.

so "No one can as you truly can, my king, because empty compliments escape you [i.e., you don't deserve them] or they are [/can be] assured that you are at hand [/standing by] or they fear if [/whether] you were to know [/get wind] or would perhaps come..."
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: scire + infinitive

Postby possiblymaybe » Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:30 am

Thanks for your help; I appreciate it.
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