"The optative implies that Socrates does not commit himself to the first statement" (Burnet). But see also *GMT696, which reads indicative in both places, and Adam, who claims both should be optative; note the divergent manuscript evidence.
modus.irrealis wrote:To be honest I get tripped up by this use of εἰ all the time because I do find it natural to read it at first as a conditional -- it really makes no sense to me to use εἰ. But now I wonder if I've got it wrong in this case. The a) and b) in your original post seem to be at odds.
a) seems to suggest that the sentence should be translated: And I thought, "Euenus is blessed if he truly has this skill and (still) teaches at such a reasonable price"
b) on the other hand seems to suggest: And I deemed Euenes blessed in that he truly had this skill and (yet) taught at such a reasonable price.
modus.irrealis wrote:They both have that ironic overtone that's the point and I think b) leads more naturally into what follow, but maybe a) is "safer" since I'm not sure μακαρίζω belongs in the same class of verbs as θαυμάζω.
NateD26 wrote:Interesting. I initially thought mistakenly that the irony/sarcasm suggests that this price Euenus had been paid for
his lessons was not reasonable, but actually a hefty sum. However, all the other three had charged much more
for their lessons [Prodicus received fifty minae (Charles S. Stanford), Gorgias & Protagoras 100 minae each (Stallbaum)]
so the irony is that despite having this skill/craft, he charges a meager sum for his services.
The latter also suggests that ὡς not untranslatable as part of the idiom ὡς ἀληθῶς but is to
introduce a more vivid indirect discourse (rather than actual ὅτι).
Do you know what is the name of the book by Matth. (§529. 5.), which Stallbaum mentions,
and whether or not it is online?
modus.irrealis wrote:It seems like a strange suggestion though because then I don't know what the εἰ would be doing. Wouldn't the ὠς then come before the εἰ? Maybe this is just one of the sentences that doesn't quite fit into standard grammar -- I mean it seems like this is an example of implied direct speech? -- there's a few of those in the Apology, like in your other thread where the sentence changes its construction after the parenthetical remark, which I think is to make it seem like Socrates is talking off-the-cuff instead of giving a polished prepared speech.
modus.irrealis wrote:It should be the grammar by Matthiae -- there's a translation available at archive.org.
NateD26 wrote:I think you're right about ὡς before εἰ if that were indeed the case. Perhaps, as you said, this sentence is too varied to fit into
one grammatical construct.* I'm not sure what implied direct speech is, but if I read 2632 in Smyth on the occasional variation of moods
in indirect discourse, and combine it with the concept of implied indirect discourse in 2622, then we might be able to read it with opt. ἔχοι
still, and translate the main verb as implied indirect discourse. The irony embedded in the verb μακαρίζω would be retained.
Users browsing this forum: Alexa [Bot], MSNbot Media and 49 guests