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Using LL 1 with previous knowledge

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Using LL 1 with previous knowledge

Postby Hampie » Tue May 04, 2010 3:09 am

So, I don’t know if anyone of you here got a scary good memory and remember me from two years ago, but at the time I studied latin at the University of Stockholm, and struggled with hexameter and Cicero's first oration against Catiline. Depression, sadly, caught me and with that most of my motivation shrunk to the bottom of the ocean. I did not study enough, the pedagogic methods in the study of Latin was not, i.m.o. very good, and I had a hard time concentrating so it all went to hell, pardon my french. But, since I am registered, and actually completed half of the course, now that I feel very much better and am almost out of the ’blues’ I am thinking that I should not let all this time go to waste and I am planning to take up my Latin studies again.

Since I’ve read so much about it, I decided to ’get hold of’ LL to se how it was, and I really liked (and got impressed) with how the book is laid out. So I bought it and I do not regret it. Since I have studied Latin grammar for 10 weeks the beginning of the book is quite simple – but if I flick to the end I’m completely lost (which of course is a good thing – it means that I will learn stuff!). There are some words, whose meaning does not reveal themselves through the context: but I can always look them up in my dictionary. And if there are any grammar points I don’t get I am familiar with those big, scary grammars, and I’m not intimidated to search them. So I wonder: are the ’Latine Disco’ of any use for me? I haven’t had the possibility to look it through.

My goal is, of course, to be able to take the final exams of the Latin course I begun at University two years ago. I need to be able to read a speech of Cicero, parts of de Bello Gallico by Cæcar, various poems by Catullus (including n:o 16, hehe!), parts of Metamorphoses and Ars Amatoria by Ovid and I don’t recall if we had to read some verses by Vergil or not… Sitting in front of the latin text with annotations frenzily flipping trough the dictionary for every other word, searching for the subject and the predicate made me want to vomit, so I hope, that LL will somehow give me _some_ literal fluency. I want to be able to read a sentence or two without having to resort to a dictionary. Anything that will ease up the process of digging through the hard parts is good, I guess.

Uhm.. I have no idea whether there is any red thread here, but I’m tired. I’m also curious if the exercise book, and that other book with dialogues are of any use? Have anyone looked through them?

So far I’ve been reading LL, without doing any pensa or grammar practise and so far I’ve understood almost everything – I am now at VII. I’m not sure whether I should use my to do the easier pensa or if I should wait until I find the texts harder to read? To just read is a very nice experience, because I have not read a latin sentence without having to resort to some kind of aid before. It’s an amazing confidence boost! The passages can be a bit dull sometimes, but that’s, I guess, something you cannot get around when making a book which teaches with gradual texts…

Bonam noctem, nunc est dormandum, num hora V est…
Här kan jag i alla fall skriva på svenska, eller hur?
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Re: Using LL 1 with previous knowledge

Postby thesaurus » Tue May 04, 2010 2:13 pm

Good to see you back on here again. I do in fact remember your questions about the beginning of Cicero's first Catiline oration. I can't remember whether my advice was any good, however (knowing my overconfidence, I'd say *not*).

Gaudeo qui te hoc in foro redeuntem video. Equidem dubiorum de Ciceronis oratione prima in Catilinam quae nobis posuisti memor sum. At nescio anne bonum dedi tibi consilium (si audaciam autem scio meam, haud bonum).

I haven't used any of the supplements to Lingua Latina, but I did work through most of the two volumes after having had undergone the traditional approach. I can vouch for LL's efficacy, and if you stick with it, it will in fact make reading Latin less vomit inducing. I never really enjoyed Latin (except as a challenge) until I made progress in LL. I can't say that it made reading poetry especially easier for me, but it helps a lot with prose. It's really great when you can get over the hump, where you no longer have to sweat furiously to translate a single passage, when you read a sentence of Cicero and understand what he's getting at without having to resort to industrial solvents to separate reform the constituents of the sentence.

Supplementis cursus Linguae Latinae usus non sum, sed cursu studiorum assueto perfecto utraque volumina paene usque ad finem perlegi. Valentem methodum Linguam Latinam esse adfirmare possum atque si perservas, dico te rarius evomere cogi. Priusquam huic cursui nitebar, minime mihi haec lingua placuit, nisi ut provocatio quaedam. Poetae etiam nunc me aliquantum vexant, sed oratores aliosque stylo soluto scribentes facundior lego. Cum cacumine potitus eris, ubi quamvis Ciceronis sententiam multo sine sudore quid significet intellegis, miraberis vereque laetaberis. Sententiam discreta in elementa sicut quibusdam acidis disolvere, tunc in unam denuo componere necesse non erit.

I'd say do all the pensa in the book, but I didn't do that myself. Perhaps you should just start doing them now for the current chapter; if they become too much, then you can take a step back. At the least, glance over them before you move onto the next chapter and see if they make sense.

Omnia libri pensa exigeas tibi commendam, sed idem non feci ego. Fortasse ea quae nunc in manu sunt exigere juvabit; si nimis opprimunt, retrorsum ire potes. Quod est minimum, priusquam in capitulum sequens ingrederis, legi pensa ne intellegere non possis.

If you encounter words that you "learned" in earlier chapters, but have trouble recognizing later on, this is a sign that you should review more closely before moving on. This often means rereading (perhaps even transcribing, if you're feeling ambitious) the chapter or section a few times.

Si verba quae olim "didicisti" posterius obscura videntur, tibi oportet capitula praecedentia majore cum cura iterum legas vel etiam, si vires non desunt, scribas.
Horae quidem cedunt et dies et menses et anni, nec praeteritum tempus umquam revertitur nec quid sequatur sciri potest. Quod cuique temporis ad vivendum datur, eo debet esse contentus. --Cicero, De Senectute
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Re: Using LL 1 with previous knowledge

Postby jowens » Tue May 04, 2010 4:02 pm

I have found the college companion by Neumann to be invaluable in giving additional instruction and information. That being said, it seems to me that I am still missing some important grammatical concepts - especially around the use of pronouns - that I might get from a more traditional course. I don't switch to a more traditional course, however, because I wouldn't complete it. With Lingua Latina, I at least pick up the books and read a little bit of latin several times a week, and get around to doing some paper exercises a couple of times a month, while with the traditional courses, I would put down the books and walk away for months because I didn't feel like doing paperwork.
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Re: Using LL 1 with previous knowledge

Postby dlb » Wed May 05, 2010 1:34 am

I completely understand your joy in reading LL. After 1.5 years of studying Wheelocks I had to have something to read other than grammar lessons to see if I could (1) read (2) understand & (3) take a break from grammar studies. LL accompolished all three. Now here is what I have found to be very useful to me but I, unlike you, have no time constraints. I switched over to D'Ooge for teaching, I read LL for leisure, I read Gibbon prior to retiring and consult Wheelocks & Grote as required. In other words I have tried to take a more 'rounded' approach to my study of Latin, branching out from grammar but still staying on course with other related readings. LL, and others, provides a break from study yet challenges you to learn more Latin and gives you a boost of confidence which you need when you are down in the trenches. I do some of the exercises, make copious notes within the text, and add new words to my index cards.

I guess that I view learning Latin as an all encompassing approach to learning a language. I can't treat is as a subject solus - I must try to intergrate it daily into my life, to be completely subjugated to the materials, and to approach it from as many view points as I can comprehend in order to increase my comprehension.
Deus me ducet, non ratio.
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