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Urgent Clauses Question: Quod/tot etc...

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Urgent Clauses Question: Quod/tot etc...

Postby Scribo » Sun May 02, 2010 11:36 am

Basically when you see these two words in opposition what do we call that?

If it was a case of "how many? This many" it would be an indirect question right? what about in poems like this:

Disertissime Romuli nepotum,
quot sunt quotque fuere, Marce Tulli,
quotque post aliis erunt in annis,
gratias tibi maximas Catullus
agit pessimus omnium poeta,
tanto pessimus omnium poeta
quanto tu optimus omnium patronus.

the tanto/quanto bit? Would it be relative? I panick since I have ALOT of reading to do and memorise prior to my exam in like 3 days and I'm not sure I know all the clauses each piece contains...
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Re: Urgent Clauses Question: Quod/tot etc...

Postby spiphany » Sun May 02, 2010 12:33 pm

I'm not quite sure what you're asking... the interrogative/demonstrative pairs (quot/tot, qualis/talis) are known as correlatives, if that helps any. There's a table here: http://www.hhhh.org/perseant/libellus/a ... e.152.html
IPHIGENIE: Kann uns zum Vaterland die Fremde werden?
ARKAS: Und dir ist fremd das Vaterland geworden.
IPHIGENIE: Das ist's, warum mein blutend Herz nicht heilt.
(Goethe, Iphigenie auf Tauris)
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Re: Urgent Clauses Question: Quod/tot etc...

Postby Scribo » Sun May 02, 2010 12:59 pm

tibi maxima gratis ago amice! id est quid volo!
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Re: Urgent Clauses Question: Quod/tot etc...

Postby Imber Ranae » Mon May 03, 2010 3:15 am

Just to be clear: correlative clauses are not indirect questions. Quot can be used both as an interrogative and as a relative adverb, but when correlated with tot it is always relative.

In Catullus 49 quot is also relative, even though there is no correlative demonstrative present. The missing tot means that quot is indefinite. Translate: "O most learned of the descendants of Romulus, as many [of them] as there are, were, or will be in years to come, Marcus Tullius, to you...[etc.]"

Scribo wrote:tibi maximas gratias ago amice! id est quod volo!
Ex mala malo
bono malo uesci
quam ex bona malo
malo malo malo.
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Re: Urgent Clauses Question: Quod/tot etc...

Postby Scribo » Mon May 03, 2010 9:44 am

Ah ok, for 49 I get:

Most eloquent of Romulus' progeny Marcus Tullius, as many as there are, have been
and will be in other years,
Catullus, the worst poet of all, sends his
greatest thanks.
As much the worst poet of all
As you are the best patron of all.

don't really see any actual clauses though. :S
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Re: Urgent Clauses Question: Quod/tot etc...

Postby ptolemyauletes » Tue May 04, 2010 8:22 am

Take a look at 'The Latin Language - A Handbook for Students' by The Scottish Classics Group easily obtainable on the Internet...
It has a great section on correlatives on pages 63-64

ISBN 0-05-004287-4
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