Textkit Logo

Question:Herodotus:: 9.2.2

Here you can discuss all things Ancient Greek. Use this board to ask questions about grammar, discuss learning strategies, get help with a difficult passage of Greek, and more.

Question:Herodotus:: 9.2.2

Postby chibibaiyun » Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:31 am

[b]Hdt: 9.2.2
κατά μὲν γὰρ τὸ ἰσχυρὸν Ἕλληνας ὁμοφρονέοντας, οἵ περ καὶ πάρος ταὐτὰ ἐγίνωσκον, χαλεπὰ εἶναι περιγίνεσθαι καὶ ἅπασι ἀνθρώποισι.
(http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... ection%3D2)

Would you please translate the sentence above closely? though I refer to several English tranlations and get the proper meaning, I can't catch it by the grammer. My questions are: 1) what does ταυτά εγίνωσκον mean literally? 2) the whole is an infinitive phrase, not a complete and independent sentence--is that a normal expression?

Thanks a lot!!!
Textkit Neophyte
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:06 am

Re: Question:Herodotus:: 9.2.2

Postby modus.irrealis » Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:06 pm

About the whole thing being an infinitive phrase, that's because it's indirect discourse, continuing from the previous line. So it represents what the Thebans said and not what the author is saying -- notice also how the μέν here goes with the following δέ in the direct quote. But this sort of implicit indirect discourse is very common.

For ταὐτὰ ἐγίνωσκον, γιγνώσκω can also mean "think", so here's it's "thought the same things" = "had the same opinion".

So my close translation would be: for it is difficult, they said, even for all men to overcome by force the Greeks being of the same mind, who had formerly thought the same things.

(I couldn't find a good literal translation of the participle, but I'm guess you're okay with that part.)
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 1093
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:08 am
Location: Toronto

Re: Question:Herodotus:: 9.2.2

Postby Damoetas » Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:10 am

Also, ταὐτὰ = τὰ αὐτὰ, in case you were confused by that. The smooth breathing mark above the υ shows that "crasis" (mixing, i.e. of words) has occurred.
Dic mihi, Damoeta, 'cuium pecus' anne Latinum?
Textkit Fan
Posts: 231
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:31 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Question:Herodotus:: 9.2.2

Postby chibibaiyun » Fri Apr 02, 2010 6:00 am

Thanks a lot to modus.irrealis and Damoetas!
the translation is pretty close, and the explanation is concise and clear! they are very helpful!
Textkit Neophyte
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:06 am

Return to Learning Greek

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 81 guests