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laborum patientior quam credi potest

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laborum patientior quam credi potest

Postby akisame » Fri Mar 26, 2010 2:40 pm

Hello again.

Here is a sentence from de viris illustribus (Caesar):
Armorum et equitandi peritissimus fuit, laborum patientior quam credi potest

He (Caesar) was very skilled in arms and horse-riding. He was capable of enduring(?) hardships more patiently than he was believed [to be capable of?].

In my tentative translation I supplied "to endure" out of no where to make it passable English. I have a difficulty fitting laborum into the rest of the sentence. What verb or adjective casts the noun into the genitive? Even though the only finite verb in the sentence is potest, I am note sure if possum takes a genitive noun as the predicate.

Thanks in advance for all those who would answer my quetions!

ut valeatis,
Akisame
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Re: laborum patientior quam credi potest

Postby modus.irrealis » Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:21 pm

Hi,

The genitive is sometimes used with adjectives/participles. I found a reference here that mentions patiens and suggest it's a matter of permanence.

About "potest", here it's being used impersonally, so "quam credi potest" = "than can be believed" / "than one can believe".
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Re: laborum patientior quam credi potest

Postby akisame » Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:17 am

Hi,

I couldn't see that patientior can govern the noun. Thanks for the link! Just to check, the genitive of permanent attribute can focus on a different sense of the verb patior (and its derivatives) from the one used with an accusative noun?

Comf. the pair:
vir patiens onus grande (A man carrying a heavy load)
Caesar laborum patientior fuit quam credi potest (Caesar was incredibly)
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Re: laborum patientior quam credi potest

Postby thesaurus » Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:06 am

akisame wrote:Hi,

I couldn't see that patientior can govern the noun. Thanks for the link! Just to check, the genitive of permanent attribute can focus on a different sense of the verb patior (and its derivatives) from the one used with an accusative noun?

Comf. the pair:
vir patiens onus grande (A man carrying a heavy load)
Caesar laborum patientior fuit quam credi potest (Caesar was incredibly)


Yes, patiens can be used in both of these senses. Context should make the meaning clear.
Ita, verbum patiens utrasque sententias habere potest. Quod verbum significet contextus ostendet.

Here are some examples that may show what the book means:
"vir patiens onus grande"
"vir patiens onerum grandium"
The first just means that the man bears a particular heavy load, his backpack or grief, for example. If he sheds his burden, then he is no longer "patiens." The second example suggests that this is a man accustomed to bearing heavy burdens, perhaps because he is a slave or has experienced much hardship. It is a character trait, regardless of what he's up to at the moment. (These are my own examples, so I hope this distinction works here.)

Forsitan haec exempla sententiam libri exprimere possint. Primum dicit virum aliquod onus ferre, exempli gratia, sarcinam doloremve. Si onus deponit, "patiens" non est. Secundum exemplum dicit virum onera ferre solet, ei hoc est adsuetum--fortasse servus est, vel multas calamitates patitur totam vitam. Hoc viri mos est; non refert quod faciat. (Mea haec exempla--discrimen bonum esse cupio.)
Horae quidem cedunt et dies et menses et anni, nec praeteritum tempus umquam revertitur nec quid sequatur sciri potest. Quod cuique temporis ad vivendum datur, eo debet esse contentus. --Cicero, De Senectute
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