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IN Our Hearts

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IN Our Hearts

Postby Jedi Patel » Sun Feb 28, 2010 7:22 pm

My Uncle Was a lover of Ancient Latin.

I never took it up in school but during are long discussions,
(mostly as I was a child adoring him as he poured over drafts of his latest invention)
on warm summers, he made it sound like lost music to me.
I enjoyed that.
So much.


He has passed.

I've been searching for a long time for some help in creating a line for his
epitaph.

My Aunt has requested something like:

"You are in our hearts always"
or "you are always in our hearts"

She was really looking to me to come through.

Not easy.

Friends with doctorates and scholarly friends of friends
either never took latin or left it too long ago.

I tried a software translator but suspect
it gave me something like:

'You are literally living in our chest cavity'
(something like the "you are here" arrow on the map at the mall)

Which would make my uncle roll over more than once
I'm sure.

So can anyone help?

My family and I certainly would appreciate it.

Thank You.
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Re: IN Our Hearts

Postby thesaurus » Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:24 am

Hi Jedi Patel,
Salve, Jedi Patel,

I'm sorry for your loss. Here is my effort, though I would delay on making any final decisions until some of the other (more experienced) members weigh in.
Me paenitet audire te auvunculum amittere. Hic est conamen meum, sed cave ne aliquid agas priusquam amici docti sententias addunt.

"Semper nobis cordi es"
Horae quidem cedunt et dies et menses et anni, nec praeteritum tempus umquam revertitur nec quid sequatur sciri potest. Quod cuique temporis ad vivendum datur, eo debet esse contentus. --Cicero, De Senectute
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Re: IN Our Hearts

Postby paulusnb » Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:06 am

Thesaurus, I do not understand your choice of dative of possession and the singular cordi? I do not question your ability. :D You have a reason, I am sure. I am just curious as to your choice.

I was thinking "semper in cordibus nostris" or "semper in cordibus nostris es." Do you think "Semper nobis cordi es" has a better ring?
When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. ~Swift
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Re: IN Our Hearts

Postby Kasper » Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:27 am

I'm curious too; and I agree with Paulus that something like Semper nostris in cordibus (i like semper and cordibus as the first and last words, for emphasis' sake) appears more obvious. Does not 'cordi es' lead to awkward elision?
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
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Re: IN Our Hearts

Postby adrianus » Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:15 am

My condolences. I say (following Ainsworth): "Semper carissimus [nobis es]." Include the words "nobis es" if you like. Or "aeterne carissimus" ("Eternally most beloved/in our hearts")
Simul tecum doleo. "Semper carissimus [nobis es]" dico (secundum Ainsworth). Verba "nobis es" includas si velis. Etiam "aeternè carissimus".
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: IN Our Hearts

Postby thesaurus » Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:27 pm

I fear I don't know what I'm talking about.

I'm trying to use a dative construction with cor that I've seen.

Lewis & Short dicunt:
. Cordi est alicui, it lies at one's heart, it pleases, is pleasing, agreeable, or dear : quod tibi magnopere cordi est, mihi vehementer displicet, Lucil. ap. Non. p. 88, 32; 89, 1: utut erga me est meritus, mihi cordi est tamen, Plaut. Cist. 1, 1, 110; Ter. And. 2, 1, 28: uterque utriquest cordi, id. Phorm. 5, 3, 17: idque eo mihi magis est cordi, quod, etc., Cic. Lael. 4, 15; id. Quint. 30, 93; id. Or. 16, 53; Liv. 1, 39, 4; 8, 7, 6; Hor. C. 1, 17, 14 al.; Cato ap. Macr. S. 3, 5 fin. —With inf. : facere aliquid, Plaut. Most. 1, 4, 10: exstinguere vestigia urbis, etc., Liv. 28, 20, 7: subigi nos, id. 9, 1, 4 al.—


I'm unsure whether you can use a singular/plural combination in a double-dative construction (if that's what this is).

I see that Cicero used this in his letters:
"Dionysius nobis cordi est"
http://books.google.com/books?id=YotfAA ... 22&f=false

There are other uses that can be found, which are mostly Neo-Latin (Jesuits and such). I just hope that it expresses a strong enough sentiment, as in "you're always in our hearts," rather than "we like you."
Horae quidem cedunt et dies et menses et anni, nec praeteritum tempus umquam revertitur nec quid sequatur sciri potest. Quod cuique temporis ad vivendum datur, eo debet esse contentus. --Cicero, De Senectute
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Re: IN Our Hearts

Postby adrianus » Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:24 pm

thesaurus wrote:I'm unsure whether you can use a singular/plural combination in a double-dative construction (if that's what this is).

I reckon you're right, thesaurus, and "cordi" is always singular in that phrase.
Te, thesaure, rectè dicere puto semper istîc singularis numeri vocabulum cordis scribi.
Cicero, Orator ad Brutum, 53, wrote:flumen aliis verborum volubilitasque cordi est, qui ponunt in orationis celeritate eloquentiam
A river of words and fluency are loved by others who suppose eloquence in the speed of speaking.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: IN Our Hearts

Postby ptolemyauletes » Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:19 pm

yes, cordi as a dative combined with the verb 'to be' is idiomatic Latin.
'in cordibus' is not really idiomatic, but I suppose it sounds nice enough. There is a point at which you have to give up on trying for absolute Latin perfection. Did the Romans actually say 'you are always in our hearts?'
Possibly not, but that's what Jedi wants for his uncle.
The only thing we can guarantee when communicating via the internet is that we will be almost completely misunderstood, and likely cause great offence in doing so. Throw in an attempt at humour and you insure a lifelong enemy will be made.
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Re: IN Our Hearts

Postby Jedi Patel » Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:52 pm

paulusnb,
Confederacy is my favorite book ever.
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Re: IN Our Hearts

Postby Jedi Patel » Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:54 pm

I'm Wide eyed in both amazement and gratitude.
Wow.
So
let me ask, with great humility,
what's the Consensus...?
What's my safest bet?
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Re: IN Our Hearts

Postby Jedi Patel » Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:03 pm

ptolemyauletes wrote:yes, cordi as a dative combined with the verb 'to be' is idiomatic Latin.
'in cordibus' is not really idiomatic, but I suppose it sounds nice enough. There is a point at which you have to give up on trying for absolute Latin perfection. Did the Romans actually say 'you are always in our hearts?'
Possibly not, but that's what Jedi wants for his uncle.


Well the actual sentiment is what my aunt wants really
I think my uncle wouldn't mind that kind of blooper though.
Seems fitting given the way they played with each other.
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Re: IN Our Hearts

Postby Jedi Patel » Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:05 pm

Should I go with

Semper nostris in cordibus

or

Semper carissimus nobis es

?
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Re: IN Our Hearts

Postby paulusnb » Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:24 am

I knew you would come through, thesaurus carissimus. Thanks for the info on cor.
When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. ~Swift
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Re: IN Our Hearts

Postby thesaurus » Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:41 pm

Jedi Patel wrote:Should I go with

Semper nostris in cordibus

or

Semper carissimus nobis es

?


As it seems to have gained the approbation of the esteemed members of the forum, I suggest you go with "Semper nobis cordi es," if you want to say "you are always in our hearts." The other suggestions could work, too, but this one seems to match most closely the mode of expression that you're looking for.

(Unless anyone else objects?)

Sodalibus hujus fori doctissimis versioni meae adsentis, ut saltim mihi videtur, si sententiam "you are always in our hearts" exprimere vis, tibi commendo "semper nobis cordi es." Aliae versiones a fori sodalibus argutè propositae quoque usui esse possunt, sed illam sententiae tuae simillimam esse credo.

(Nisi aliquis etiam dissentit?)
Horae quidem cedunt et dies et menses et anni, nec praeteritum tempus umquam revertitur nec quid sequatur sciri potest. Quod cuique temporis ad vivendum datur, eo debet esse contentus. --Cicero, De Senectute
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Re: IN Our Hearts

Postby Jedi Patel » Sat Mar 06, 2010 11:46 pm

Thank you all.
You are all so very kind
and generous with your attention and knowledge.
I will inform my aunt.
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Re: IN Our Hearts

Postby clark40 » Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:48 am

As it seems to have gained the approbation of the esteemed members of the forum, I suggest you go with "Semper nobis cordi es," if you want to say "you are always in our hearts." The other suggestions could work, too, but this one seems to match most closely the mode of expression that you're looking for
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