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Latin Translation...How to translate ? need a help please !

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Latin Translation...How to translate ? need a help please !

Postby Nehad » Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:30 pm

Salutem!
Hope that the title is not against the rules.
Anyway, when I started studying Latin I thought that the many multiple cases and the wide grammar is the hardest part in this language , but now I don't see it that hard as I find translation Latin.

I find it very hard to understand a full sentence , I mean when it's higher than the level of nom, acc and verb.
For example when I deal with texts I find words in the middle of two uncompleted words.
I learnt in university a method and read on the internet another method of translation.
I learnt that I have to reorder the sentence and to start from the verb but when the sentence is complicated with many cases and adverbs with many meanings I find the verb , the nom ., and then I can't figure any more.
And the second way I've read on the internet just to read Latin as Roman without reordering it but I don't know how to amke it work.
And I don't like the way they teach us Latin in university , so I wish if someone tells me here how to translate and I will always add any sentences I don't know and try to use the most important rules of translation.
Beside many times I get confused if I should parse a word as a participle or noun .

sorry for the long introduction but I need help in this as I like Latin but want to feel it and get the sense of translation with a basic rules.
I would highly appreciate your help
Thank you very very much for your help :)
Nehad :)
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Re: Latin Translation...How to translate ? need a help please !

Postby Nehad » Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:56 pm

Here are some sentences I think they are very easy but though I can't get the meaning, so may be through these sentences you can help me .
Epistolae of Cicero
16:13
TVLLIUS TIRONIS

Omnia a te data mihi putabo, si te valentem videro. Summa cura exspectabam adventum Andrici, quem ad te miseram. Cura, si me diligis, ut valeas et, quum te bene confirmaris, ad nos venias. Vale. IIII Id. Apr.



_________________________________________
And here what I did >>>>


Omnia a te data mihi putabo, si te valentem videro.

omnia : omis,-e adj , all every

a : + abl >>> by
te : 2nd personal pronoun, you
abl,s, m after abl.
data : datum ,-i, n, present , gift
nom.,n.,pl.
( and can be acc., I think it would be more clear when I complete the sentence , but I'm also not sure if I should use data as a noun from datum,-i or p.p.p. from do , dare , I think it would give the same meaning but I don't know which to use.)

mihi : personal pron.,to me
dat , m , s.,

putabo:puto , -are,-avi, -atum:think , suppose, believe
future,1st,s.,ind., act

sit: present v.to be , 1st.,s., subj.,act.
e: e/ex+abl.,out of/from
valentem:valens,valentis ,m., emperor valens
(and in the same time it's not capital v so I think it's not proper name and I suppose that it may be a participle of the verb valeo,-ere : to be strong
or to be from the adjective valens, valentis adj.strong , so I think it's strong.
videro:video,-ere, vidi, visum:see
future perfect , 1st., s., ind.,act.

-----------------------------
and that was the parsing, now when I go to translation I will start from putabo as it's the first declined verb
so I will think that ..
then omnia a te data
ummm I suppose that omnia qualifies data
so they both are n.,pl.,ummm subject acc?? indirect statement ?? :roll:
so it should be : I will think that all the gifts were by you to me . ( or to me by you ) >> is that right ? and is that good english ?

then the second part of the sentence :

sit e valentem videro

I would have seen that I'm strong>>>>>!!!!! >>>I'm sure it's completely wrong beside I didn't translate e , I don't know what agrees with it
and also I think it's not right to say :
I will think that all the gifts were to me by you , I would have seen that I'm strong.

really that's annoying I'm sure it has any relation to what Cicero has written , lol.
What is the wrong I did ?
And what should I do to avoid these faults ?
Is there any better ways to understand Latin ?
I searched for the verb then the nom., then the acc., but I laways mix up in this part ..
So. please I wish you can help me .

Summa cura exspectabam adventum Andrici, quem ad te miseram.



Cura, si me diligis, ut valeas et, quum te bene confirmaris, ad nos venias.



Vale. IIII Id. Apr.

I'm parsing the rest , so I will finish first then write them here. but wish that someone helps me before I write more stupid translations.
Sorry for so long topic and Thank you so much for your patience and time.
Nehad
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Re: Latin Translation...How to translate ? need a help please !

Postby adrianus » Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:07 pm

Salve Nehad

Is your first language Arabic, Nehad, and are there good Arabic books on Latin, or are you obliged to follow English books on Latin?

Arabicéne loqueris, Nehad? Suntne arabicè bonae grammaticae latinae, an te oporteat anglicos libros adhibere?
Last edited by adrianus on Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Latin Translation...How to translate ? need a help please !

Postby adrianus » Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:29 pm

Nehab wrote:Here are some sentences I think they are very easy but though I can't get the meaning

Omnia a te data mihi putabo, si te valentem videro. Summa cura exspectabam adventum Andrici, quem ad te miseram. Cura, si me diligis, ut valeas et, quum te bene confirmaris, ad nos venias.

"Everything by you imparted to me I will appreciate, if I will see you are in good health. With the greatest interest I was awaiting the arrival of Andricus, whom to you I had sent. Take care, if you love me, that you are well and, when you have confirmed that you are well, that to me/us you come."

"I will appreciate [all the more] everything you have told me [in your letter, presumably], if I see you healthy. I was eagerly awaiting the arrival of Andricus whom I sent to you. If you love me look after yourself and, having made sure you're fine, see that you come visit me/us."

Many words have more than one sense in another language. It's confusing figuring out which meaning suits the context, I agree with you.
Ambigua sunt multa verba in aliam linguam versa. Qui sensus sit aptus contextui quodam, id saepè confundit, ut tecum concurro.
Last edited by adrianus on Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Latin Translation...How to translate ? need a help please !

Postby Nehad » Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:45 pm

Adrianus ,
Thank you so so so soooo much ^___^.
Yes , Arabic is my native language.
But I do prefer to study Latin in English , in the same time yes we have to translate to English but I prefer to study all romance languages with English equivalents, studying Latin in Arabic is really much harder and not helpful at all.
I downloaded the Grammar books which are here , they helped me alot in grammar , but they don't have many notices about translation, just the basics about the reordering and so on.
I have one Arabic book explaining Latin grammar but I don't like it at all. beside it's also a grammar book.

Thank you again so much for translation.
But is that mean that just I should try and practice more? aren't there any rules I can pursue to lead me to a right translation , I'm really feeling so disappointed by what I've tried to translate:/
lool, anyway I will try to read what you have written and compare it with the Latin text and try to figure it all out ,
Thank you for everything ^____^ :)
Salve ^_______^
Nehad :)
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Re: Latin Translation...How to translate ? need a help please !

Postby adrianus » Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:57 pm

Nehab wrote:But is that mean that just I should try and practice more? aren't there any rules I can pursue to lead me to a right translation

Yes, practise, practise, practise!
Grammars are full of rules. Learn them all !!!???
Then practise, practise, practise!
And study word-order especially.

Iterum atque iterum exerceas!
Sunt grammaticae plenae regularum. Omnes discendae sunt, quod valdè vexat!!!???
Tunc etiam atque etiam exerceas!
Et praesertim studio ordinis verborum operam des.
Last edited by adrianus on Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Latin Translation...How to translate ? need a help please !

Postby Nehad » Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:08 pm

:D :D :idea: :D 8) ^____^ Thank you very much.
I will do my best.
Thanks agaaain ^____^
Nehad.
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Re: Latin Translation...How to translate ? need a help please !

Postby adrianus » Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:21 pm

Don't forget this forum exists, Nehad, where everyone helps each other because we all need it.
Tenes memoriâ ut hoc forum exstat, Nehad, quo nos omnes inopes ab invicem adjuvamur.

So sorry that I misspelt your name above, Nehad.
Me paenitet, Nehad, ut litteras nominis tibi suprâ perperàm connexi.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Latin Translation...How to translate ? need a help please !

Postby Einhard » Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:49 pm

Hey Nehad,

I had much the same problem when I started reading Latin. I had studied and memorised a huge amount of grammar and could recite it at will, but I initially found it very difficult and frustrating when it came to reading anything beyond the most basic of sentences. Because the word order is of comparatively little assistance in Latin, I often felt like I was completing a puzzle, trying to match various words, rather than translating a language. The key to progressing beyond this stage is, as adrianus points out, practice and lots of it. I'd suggest though, that rather than practising on Classical texts at the beginning, you buy a more basic text, such as Lingua Latina. This is tailored to the novice and the chapters progress in difficulty, allowing you to make progress at your own pace. So you get to practice your reading without becoming discouraged, as you might were you to attempt to plough through Cicero etc. After you are accustomed to reading Lingua Latina (or a similar text) in a fluent manner, you can always move onto more difficult pieces. That's the method I used anyway, and I'm pleased and pleasantly surprised at how my comprehension skills have picked up. Oh, and make full use of this place. I've peppered the boards with all sorts of questions and queries since I joined, and have found them invaluable.
Einhard.
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Re: Latin Translation...How to translate ? need a help please !

Postby adrianus » Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:24 pm

Einhard wrote:Because the word order is of comparatively little assistance in Latin...

This I personally don't agree with. In my book, no time is wasted in studying Latin word-order, as long as you're looking at the best writers. Through it you can start to enter into the mind of the writer. What seems the problem contains the solution.

Ego hoc disputo. Nullum tempus perditur per studio ordinis verborum latinorum, dummodo optimorum auctorum in scriptos inquiras. Per ipsum ordinem te in mentis scriptoris limen intrare potes. Id quod problema videtur explicationem continetur.
Last edited by adrianus on Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Latin Translation...How to translate ? need a help please !

Postby Einhard » Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:39 pm

adrianus wrote:
Einhard wrote:Because the word order is of comparatively little assistance in Latin...

This I personally don't agree with. In my book, no time is wasted in studying Latin word-order, as long as you're looking at the best writers. Through it you can start to enter into the mind of the writer.
Ego hoc disputo. Nullum tempus perditur per studio ordinis verborum latinorum, dummodo optimorum auctorum in scriptis inquiras. Per ipsum ordinem te in mentis scriptoris limen intrare potest.


I'm not saying that word order isn't important in Latin, or cannot be of assistance in illuminating the meaning of a text or sentence, more that the order is considerably less static than in other languages, and thus less helpful as a tool of translation. For example, I'm studying French as well as Latin, and have always found reading the latter a far more considerable challenge, largely due to the fact that the structure of the sentence can vary so widely in comparison to the former.
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Re: Latin Translation...How to translate ? need a help please !

Postby adrianus » Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:54 pm

Einhard wrote:...a far more considerable challenge, due to the fact that the structure of the sentence can vary so widely in comparison to the former.

What seems the problem contains the solution. If word-order is problematic, it must be studied to be understood. Thereby it's a very helpful tool to understanding and to translation.

Id quod problema videtur explicationem continetur. Ordo verborum qui frequentiùs spinosus sit multò noscendus est. Quamobrem utilissimum et intellectûs et traductionis instrumentum est hoc studium.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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