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Gradatim

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Gradatim

Postby adrianus » Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:42 pm

Here is a little beginners book which, if you don't know it, I thoroughly recommend as having loads of nice, interesting, easy short stories. I have it at home (it belonged to an aunt—the 1905 edition) but I came across it on the internet only just recently.

Ecce libellum tironis quem omnibus inscitis penitùs laudo, tam jocundae et attractivae et numerosae et faciles sunt fabulae contractae contentae. Iam diu domi eum habui (per editionem anni millesimi nongentesimi quinti, quae amitae erat) at modò in interrete repperi.

H.R. Heatley & H.N. Kingdon, Gradatim (1893) @ http://www.archive.org/details/gradatim00kinggoog
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Gradatim

Postby Quis ut Deus » Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:54 pm

Salve Adriane!

Hey Adrianus, I followed your link, and tried to follow the link to the PDF (which was a google page). However, on the Google page it doesn't say where to download the pdf. Are there any other links to this book in pdf format?

Non vinculum pdf invenire possum.

Vale amice!
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Re: Gradatim

Postby adrianus » Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:16 pm

Here is what you're looking for:
Heic quod quaeris:

http://ia311320.us.archive.org/2/items/gradatim00kinggoog/

(under "All Files: HTTP" in the original link // per hunc paginae jam datae nexum)
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Gradatim

Postby Quis ut Deus » Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:23 pm

Gratias tibi ago, Adriane! Vale.
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Re: Gradatim

Postby Interaxus » Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:30 am

Adrianus:

Funnily enough I just happened to have a copy of ‘Gradatim’ lying on my breakfast table when I read your post. The other week I also downloaded 3 different versions of this little book out of pure curiosity since I'm fascinated by the protean transformations Latin textbooks tend to undergo! For example, compare the changes in word order (not to mention the 4 different Latin translations of ‘finally’) in these versions of the first half of the first story, ‘The Naughty Boy’. The 4 versions are:

1. the original ‘Gradatim’ by Heatley & Kingdon, 1884:
2. my breakfast-table copy of Scudder’s revision of ‘Gradatim’, American edition, 1890 (mainly adds length marks)
3. the downloaded copy of Scudder’s revision of ‘Gradatim’, American edition, also 1890 (re-orders the words)
4. the downloaded copy of Collar’s revision, ‘The New Gradatim’, 1899 (re-orders words yet again)

To make it easier to compare the changes, here is the text broken down sentence by sentence:

Albertus, ignāvus puer, non amabat littĕras.
Albertus, ignāvus puer, nōn amābat litterās.
Albertus, īgnāvus puer, litterās nōn amābat.
Albertus, puer īgnāvus, litterās nōn amābat.

Saepe vītabat suum magistrum, et pererrabat agros.
Saepe vitābat suum magistrum, et pererrābat agrōs.
Saepe magistrum suum vītābat, et agrōs pererrābat.
Magistrum suum saepe vītābat, et agrōs pererrābat.

At saevus taurus habitabat agros.
At saevus taurus habitābat agrōs.
At saevus taurus agrōs habitābat.
At taurus saevus habitābat agrōs.

OLIM videt puerum.
DĒMUM videt puerum.
DĔNIQUE puerum videt.
ALIQUANDŌ puerum videt.

Primo stat et saevis ocǔlis lustrat advĕnam.
Prīmō stat et saevīs oculīs lūstrat advenam.
Prīmō stat et advenam saevīs oculīs lūstrat.
Prīmō stat et advenam lūstrat saevīs oculīs.

Albertus tentat fugam.
Albertus tentat fugam.
Albertus fugam tentat.
Albertus fugam tentat.

Tum taurus instat.
Tum taurus īnstat.
Tum īnstat taurus.
Tum īnstat taurus.

Mox cornigĕrum monstrum vulnerabit tergum misĕri pueri.
Mox cornigerum mōnstrum volnerābit tergum miserī puerī.
Mox cornigerum mōnstrum miserī puerī tergum volnerābit.
Mox miserī puerī tergum volnerābit cornigerum mōnstrum.

Professors never could agree, could they?

So, OLIM, DĒMUM, DĔNIQUE or ALIQUANDŌ? Which is best in this context?

Cheers,
Int
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Re: Gradatim

Postby adrianus » Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:40 pm

Salve Interaxe

Scribis hoc: "Professors never could agree, could they?" at ita consideres:
Gradatim, Preface, p.iv, wrote:As an additional help to Translation the experiment has been tried of at first writing the Latin in English order, but this arrangement has been abandoned as soon as possible."

De hâc re, redactores sequentes aliter ordinem verborum per modum anglicum in sententiis quibusdam prope huius opusculi initium aestimaverunt.
In this, subsequent editors had a slightly different opinion about the use of English word-order in certain sentences early on in this little work.

Albert, the naughty boy, didn't like studies/books. Often he used to evade his master and wander the fields. A savage bull used to live in the fields.

OLIM videt puerum. = At one time (once in the past) he sees the boy.
DĒMUM videt puerum. = Eventually he sees the boy.
DĔNIQUE puerum videt. = And then he sees the boy.
ALIQUANDŌ puerum videt. = At length he sees the boy.

As you like, according to your set curriculum.
Ut tibi placet, secundum curriculum statutum.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Gradatim

Postby Interaxus » Sun Feb 07, 2010 8:44 pm

Adrianus:

Thanks for the OLIM-ALIQUANDO review!

Yes, the final editor (Collar) also admits in his preface to omitting 34 of the original anecdotes for other reasons: "some of these seemed rather pointless, others a little questionable in tone or taste".

For example, there’s ‘The Blackamoor’, where two white kids are punished by their parents for laughing at a little black slave boy. Then there’s ‘Lady Godiva’ (married to Gyges in this version) - where Lady G rides nude through the streets to save the townsfolk from heavy taxes. Meanwhile, ‘Who killed the cock?’ is retained but renamed as ‘The Foolish Maid-servants’. Etc, etc.

Intrigued as to what had been omitted, I had a delightful Latin session reading through the omitted texts (I felt like the proverbial Sunday School child). I think two at least of the silly joke stories could have been retained. I paste them from the archive.org text-only version:

95. HOW TO GET RID OF A WIFE.

Fulvius quidam, cui uxor erat difficilis, quod eam vi interficere non audebat, fraudem adhibere constituit. Mulierem igitur ad ripam fluminis, quod per ipsum hortum fluebat, duxit. Quo ubi advenit, “Mihi,” inquit, “in animo est e vita discedere. Tu igitur, ut uxor fidelis, extremis viri mandatis pare.” Uxor incauta fidem dat. “Ergo,” inquit Fulvius, “manus mihi post tergum hoc fune vinci, me-que in flumen dejice.” Tum ea, etsi rem credere vix potuit, quod noluit fidem datam violare, manus eius constrinxit, et maximo nisu eum in aquam propellere paravit. At Fulvius subito motu corporis periculum elusit, mulier-que improvida suo impetu in aquam praeceps dejicitur. Inde miseris precibus auxilium oranti respondit ille: “Volo equidem te iuvare; quod tamen meas manus vinxisti, nullo modo possum.”

111. TOO GOOD A DEFENCE.

Anus quaedam, quae Capuae habitabat, pallium sibi a nuru creditum forte sciderat. Cuius iram verita, pallium scissum inter aliquas vestes integras celavit, omnes-que eodem tempore suae nurui reddidit. Haec autem, ubi fraudem perspexit, quod id pallium maximi aestimabat, ira commota causam apud iudices agebat. Tum anus a iudicibus interrogata, purgandi sui causa, ita respondit. “Si aequi estis iudices, nullam poenam a me repetetis multas ob causas; primum enim nullum pallium mihi unquam creditum est; quomodo igitur id scindere potui? Deinde nurus mea pallium ipsa sciderat, antequam id mihi credidit. Postremo id pallium, quod reddidit integrum fuit. Nonne me igitur laude digniorem quam poena habebitis?" Hac tamen oratione usa, iudicibus non persuasit

The point is that understanding (even) a (bad) joke in Latin is confidence-building. :)

(To any Latin newbies: if you want help with the translation, just ask).

Cheers,
Int
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Re: Gradatim

Postby adrianus » Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:26 pm

Interaxus wrote:Thanks for the OLIM-ALIQUANDO review!

Sorry, Interaxus. I didn't take your original question to be rhetorical.
I like the comparisons, BTW. They're fun and interesting.

Tuâ veniâ, Interaxe, non rhetoricam tuam quaestionem pristinam de OLIM-ALIQUANDO habebam.
Obiter, comparationes factas amo ut deliciae quae me tenent.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Gradatim

Postby Interaxus » Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:52 pm

Adrianus:

Don't get me wrong. When I said 'Thanks for the OLIM-ALIQUANDO review!', I really meant it.

Cheers,
Int
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Re: Gradatim

Postby thesaurus » Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:08 pm

Thanks for sharing those stories, Interaxus. They were delightfully bad.

Gratias tibi, Interaxe, fabulas istas adferenti. Vilescentes valent.
Horae quidem cedunt et dies et menses et anni, nec praeteritum tempus umquam revertitur nec quid sequatur sciri potest. Quod cuique temporis ad vivendum datur, eo debet esse contentus. --Cicero, De Senectute
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Re: Gradatim

Postby adrianus » Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:23 pm

Interaxus wrote:Don't get me wrong. When I said 'Thanks for the OLIM-ALIQUANDO review!', I really meant it.

OK, well, you're very welcome, Interaxus! In the other thread I was surprised to be insulted for what I thought was a funny maxim. There's a sort of weird uncertainty in the air. Paranoia!

Benè, Interaxe, licet! Libentissimé! Alio in filo in jocosum adagium, ut credi, insultatus sum, quod perturbavit. Aer affectu ambiguitatis externo offunditur. Paranoiam!

Both stories (plus "Blackamoor", "Who killed the cock?" "Lady Godiva") are in the 1905 edition, BTW, Interaxus.
Ambae fabulae obiter, Interaxe, (non minùs aliae citatae) in editione anni millesimi nongentesimi quinti includuntur.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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