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Please critique this snippet!

Postby Quis ut Deus » Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:23 am

Salvete omnes!

Here I have a snippet I wrote about a current event. There was a massacre in Ciudad Juarez, Mexico on Saturday and I am trying to write about it.

Here's the link to the actual article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/02/world ... uarez.html

OK, here's my rendition of the article, Nuntii Latini style (well, without the Latinitas, of course!):

----Caedes in Mexico facta est----

Dies Lunae-

Die Saturni sedecim adulescentes in convivio intefecti sunt ab sicariis.

Comarchus cruentis saevaeque urbis Juarez Mexicani timuit ne mortes sedecim adulescentum temere fuisset.

Comarchus Jose Reyes Ferriz dixit denuntiatores sicarios quaesere.

Praemium multae pecuniae rectio offert ulli civi qui sicarios feliciter indicare potest.

OK, guys, thanks in advance.

Gratias vobis ago maturius.
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Re: Please critique this snippet!

Postby thesaurus » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:27 am

----Caedes in Mexico facta est----
Dies Lunae-
Die Saturni sedecim adulescentes in convivio intefecti sunt ab sicariis.

All this looks good.

Comarchus cruentis saevaeque urbis Juarez Mexicani timuit ne mortes sedecim adulescentum temere fuisset.

Does this translate as, "The mayor of the bloody and savage city of Juarez Mexico was afraid that the deaths of the sixteen youths had happened rashly [mistakenly?]"? If the city is bloody and savage, it would be "cruentae saevaeque urbis." I'm unsure what the mayor fears in the last clause, but if "mortes" is the subject, then the verb needs to be plural. If "sedecim adulescentum" is genitive, it needs to be "adulescentium." If the youths were mistakenly killed (because the cartel meant to target someone else), then you could say "timuit ne sedecim adulescentium perperam/sine ratione interfecti fuissent." (Whitaker's lists "encaenium" and "exenium" as adverbs meaning "by mistake," but I've never ever seen these, and they don't seem to be in Lewis & Short...)

Comarchus Jose Reyes Ferriz dixit denuntiatores sicarios quaesere.

"The mayor Jose Reyes Ferriz said police officers(?) are seeking(?) the murderers." For police I'd say "custodes/vigiles." You probably want "quaerere" instaed of "quaesere," which means something more like "beg/ask." Ita "COmachus Jose Reyes Ferriz dixit vigiles sicarios quaerere."

Praemium multae pecuniae rectio offert ulli civi qui sicarios feliciter indicare potest.

"The government is offering a large monetary reward to any citizen who can perhaps(?) reveal the murderers." Not sure what to do with feliciter here, which means "happily." Willingly? Voluntarily? Then you'd want something like "sua sponte."

Good work! Just need to work on more natural phrasing in parts. I'm sure others can recommend much more felicitous phrasing and vocabulary than I've indicated. Terrible news by the way. It's tragic that so many people are killed unjustly all over the world...

Euge! Nunc verba commodius dirigeas opus est. Certe alii multas concinnitates tibi commendare possunt. Nuntii quam nefandi! Valde doleo quod tot homines cruente injusteque ubique interfecti sunt...
Horae quidem cedunt et dies et menses et anni, nec praeteritum tempus umquam revertitur nec quid sequatur sciri potest. Quod cuique temporis ad vivendum datur, eo debet esse contentus. --Cicero, De Senectute
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Re: Please critique this snippet!

Postby Quis ut Deus » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:59 am

Salve Thesaure!

Gratias tibi ago ob auxilium quod mihi dedisti.

cruentae--got it. I thought "cruentus" was cruentis, -e.

I used "temere" because I was looking for the word "randomly" which is the word the article used. The Collins dictionary I have gave me "temere" for "at random."

It seems the mayor is stating that the killing wasn't even a case of mistaken identity, but just plain random. There was a party, they rolled up, they killed everybody.

"timuit ne sedecim adulescentium perperam/sine ratione interfecti fuissent." Got it. However, I was trying to use indirect speech with an accusative subject, and that's why I used "mortes" and "fuisse." However, it appears that with verbs of FEARING, the SUBJUNTIVE MUST BE USED, is that correct?

Collins gave me "feliciter." I was looking for "successfully" going from English-Latin and that's the word it gave me, along with "prospere" and "bene."

Ergo, Thesaure, magnas gratias tibi ago!

Vale!
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Re: Please critique this snippet!

Postby thesaurus » Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:46 am

I used "temere" because I was looking for the word "randomly" which is the word the article used. The Collins dictionary I have gave me "temere" for "at random."

It seems the mayor is stating that the killing wasn't even a case of mistaken identity, but just plain random. There was a party, they rolled up, they killed everybody.


You're right, "temere" can mean "at random," which I overlooked. Other options might be casu and fortuito.

"timuit ne sedecim adulescentium perperam/sine ratione interfecti fuissent." Got it. However, I was trying to use indirect speech with an accusative subject, and that's why I used "mortes" and "fuisse." However, it appears that with verbs of FEARING, the SUBJUNTIVE MUST BE USED, is that correct?


Correct, clauses of fearing require the subjunctive. It's like with an ut-purpose clause, except that it's with ne. Sometimes clauses of fearing are explained as two separate sentences, like "timeo ne canes me mordeant" "I'm afraid that the dogs will bite me/lest the dogs bite me." This could be rendered "timeo! I'm afraid!" "ne canes me mordeant Don't let the dogs bite me!" The ne + subjunctive is by itself a kind of "don't let this happen" meaning. This is a good way to get your head around clauses of fearing that have ut instead of ne (relatively rare). If you had "timeo ut canes me mordeant" it would mean "I'm afraid that the dogs WON'T bite me." In other words, you are afraid that something won't happen (versus that something WILL happen with a NE clause). A better example might be "timeo ut veniat! I'm afraid that he won't come." Breaking this into two sentences you get "Timeo! I'm afraid! Ut veniat That he come!/Let him come!" More than you probably needed, but there you go.

Collins gave me "feliciter." I was looking for "successfully" going from English-Latin and that's the word it gave me, along with "prospere" and "bene."


Quite right. I misunderstood your intention. Makes sense.

Keep up the excellent work.
Horae quidem cedunt et dies et menses et anni, nec praeteritum tempus umquam revertitur nec quid sequatur sciri potest. Quod cuique temporis ad vivendum datur, eo debet esse contentus. --Cicero, De Senectute
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Re: Please critique this snippet!

Postby Quis ut Deus » Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:15 pm

Salve Thesaure!

Gratias tibi ago!

Thanks a lot for your patience and EXTREMELY valuable input on this one. I'll take all this back to the drawing board when I write my next "article." :)

Latin is very difficult, but it's good to know that you all are out there to help me along.

Vale amice!
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More news!

Postby Quis ut Deus » Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:34 am

Salvete omnes!

I thought this story was pretty interesting, so I decided to take a stab at translating it into Latin.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_britain_secret_castle

Castellum occultum viri Britanni delendum est

Londinium-

Vir Britannus, Robertus Fidler, possessor domi, qui neglegens leges urbis, domum generis castelli struxerat.

Domus, quae castellum videtur esse, canones vallaque habens, confectus est anno 2002.

Cum domum inlicta esset, astutissime Fidler domum suam civibus celavit quattuor annos.

Tandem judex imperavit ut Fidler domum suam deleret.

Uno anno domum delenda sibi est.


I look forward to any feedback you all can provide.

Gratias vobis ago maturius.

Valete!
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Re: Please critique this snippet!

Postby adrianus » Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:20 pm

I have these suggestions, Quis ut Deus: // Haec tibi suggero:

qui neglegens -> neglegens /vel/ qui neglexerat
(anglicè) cannon -> (latinè) tormentum (bellicum seu ferreum)
Domus...confectus est -> Domus confecta est
Cum domum inlicta esset ? -> Derelictionem [domi] simulans ?
Uno anno domum sibi delenda est -> [Hôc] uno anno domus ei delenda est [at hoc verò praefero, vel "ei" omittere vel 'eius' seu 'ab eo' substituere, quod è sensu requisito pendet]
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Please critique this snippet!

Postby Quis ut Deus » Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:53 pm

Salve Adriane!

Domus confecta est--I should've known that, but seeing the "us" in domus always throws me off! :lol:

Derelictionem [domi] simulans --This one I do not understand...

"ei" -- I got it!

Multas gratias tibi ago, Adriane!
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Re: Please critique this snippet!

Postby adrianus » Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:26 pm

Nescio quid velis dicere per "Cum domum inlicta esset, astutissime Fidler..."
I don't know what you mean by that phrase.
I guessed "Pretending the house was derelict, very cleverly Fidler..." "Pretending dereliction, very cleverly Fidler..."
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Please critique this snippet!

Postby Quis ut Deus » Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:19 pm

I was trying to say:

"Since the house was illegal, Fidler cleverly hid it..."

WORDS gave me "inlictus" for "not allowed," "illegal."
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Re: Please critique this snippet!

Postby thesaurus » Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:25 pm

Quis ut Deus wrote:I was trying to say:

"Since the house was illegal, Fidler cleverly hid it..."

WORDS gave me "inlictus" for "not allowed," "illegal."


Ah, I think you want "inlicitus." Leaving out the second "i" gives you the past participle of "linquo, linquere, liqui, lictus," "to leave behind."

Ah, reor te verbo "inlicita" uti voluisti. Si littera "i" secunda non inclusa est, participium praeteritum verbi "linquere" habes.

"Cum domus inlicita esset..."
Horae quidem cedunt et dies et menses et anni, nec praeteritum tempus umquam revertitur nec quid sequatur sciri potest. Quod cuique temporis ad vivendum datur, eo debet esse contentus. --Cicero, De Senectute
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Re: Please critique this snippet!

Postby adrianus » Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:28 pm

OK, I get it, "illicitus -a -um" seu "inlicitus -a -um", not "inlictus"
Licet, id nunc capio, "illicitus" seu "inlicitus" dicere voluisti.

Salve thesaure. Seriùs vidi quod misisti.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Please critique this snippet!

Postby Quis ut Deus » Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:34 pm

Thanks for that small detail, Adrianus and Thesaurus.

But other than that, was the sentence correct? :?:
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Re: Please critique this snippet!

Postby adrianus » Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:35 pm

Minimè, "Cum domum inlicta esset..." -> "Cum domus illicita/inlicita esset..."
The rest is good, though.
Bona autem est caetera pars.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Please critique this snippet!

Postby Quis ut Deus » Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:58 pm

Gratias vobis ago, Adriane Thesaureque!
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