Possessive Genitive
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Possessive Genitive
I have a question based upon text found in 1 John 1:1
τοῦ λόγου τῆς ζωῆς (the Word of Life.)
We have two terms that are Genitive "λόγου" and "ζωῆς"
Could this be a genitive of possession?
Here is my thought on this. In certain grammatical settings "Love of God" is possessive Genitive. What would prevent the "Word of Life" from being a possessive Genitive idea?
Thanks in advance
τοῦ λόγου τῆς ζωῆς (the Word of Life.)
We have two terms that are Genitive "λόγου" and "ζωῆς"
Could this be a genitive of possession?
Here is my thought on this. In certain grammatical settings "Love of God" is possessive Genitive. What would prevent the "Word of Life" from being a possessive Genitive idea?
Thanks in advance
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Re: Possessive Genitive
jk0592
My understanding is this:
In the case of the Genitive absolute , the clause isn't connected to the rest of the sentence? In this case it seems as if it is speaking from the sentence. Maybe I am wrong.
Thanks for the response
GTM
When you say "Out of context as it is" are you suggesting that it isn't connected to the rest of the sentence?Out of context as it is, I would say it is genitive absolute.
My understanding is this:
In the case of the Genitive absolute , the clause isn't connected to the rest of the sentence? In this case it seems as if it is speaking from the sentence. Maybe I am wrong.
Thanks for the response
GTM
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Re: Possessive Genitive
What I mean is that we do not know the rest of the sentence, so there is no context to take iinto account. So I supposed that you extracted a part of a sentence, and that this "phrase" had "no grammatical relationship to the rest of the sentence" to quote Athenaze, and that it is therefore a genitive absolute. But I might be wrong...sorry if I confused you.
Jean K.
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Re: Possessive Genitive
jk0592
GTM
Good point.What I mean is that we do not know the rest of the sentence, so there is no context to take into account. So I supposed that you extracted a part of a sentence, and that this "phrase" had "no grammatical relationship to the rest of the sentence" to quote Athenaze, and that it is therefore a genitive absolute. .
You didn't confuse me. Thank you. I have been wrestling with this text for some time now. I guess I am a little slow sometimes.But I might be wrong...sorry if I confused you
GTM
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Re: Possessive Genitive
this text is freely available online both in Greek New Testament and various English translations.
the first line is quite long (yet easy to translate) and includes anacoluthon
which right before it we have περὶ τοῦ λόγου τῆς ζωῆς.
so you have forgotten that the first genitive is part of a prepositional phrase and the second is possessive
"about/concerning the word of life"
and even if the first genitive wasn't a part of the prep. phrase, it is not uncommon to use
as many possessive genitives as needed.
the first line is quite long (yet easy to translate) and includes anacoluthon
which right before it we have περὶ τοῦ λόγου τῆς ζωῆς.
so you have forgotten that the first genitive is part of a prepositional phrase and the second is possessive
"about/concerning the word of life"
and even if the first genitive wasn't a part of the prep. phrase, it is not uncommon to use
as many possessive genitives as needed.
Last edited by NateD26 on Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Nate.
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Re: Possessive Genitive
NateD26
Could you expand upon your comment in regards to anacoluthon in this text?
Thanks in advance
GTM
Could you expand upon your comment in regards to anacoluthon in this text?
Thanks in advance
GTM
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Re: Possessive Genitive
it is usually a parenthetical remark that breaks the line of thought of the author and consequently the grammatical sequence.
Editors enclose anacoluthon between (em) dashes. in my text it looks like this:
Ὃ ἦν ἀπ' ἀρχῆς, ὃ ἀκηκόαμεν, ὃ ἑωράκαμεν τοῖς
ὀφθαλμοῖς ἡμῶν, ὃ ἐθεασάμεθα καὶ αἱ χεῖρες ἡμῶν
ἐψηλάφησαν, περὶ τοῦ λόγου τῆς ζωῆς —
καὶ ἡ ζωὴ ἐφανερώθη, καὶ ἑωράκαμεν καὶ μαρτυροῦμεν
καὶ ἀπαγγέλλομεν ὑμῖν τὴν ζωὴν τὴν αἰώνιον ἥτις ἦν
πρὸς τὸν πατέρα καὶ ἐφανερώθη ἡμῖν —
ὃ ἑωράκαμεν καὶ ἀκηκόαμεν ἀπαγγέλλομεν καὶ ὑμῖν,
ἵνα καὶ ὑμεῖς κοινωνίαν ἔχητε μεθ' ἡμῶν.
Editors enclose anacoluthon between (em) dashes. in my text it looks like this:
Ὃ ἦν ἀπ' ἀρχῆς, ὃ ἀκηκόαμεν, ὃ ἑωράκαμεν τοῖς
ὀφθαλμοῖς ἡμῶν, ὃ ἐθεασάμεθα καὶ αἱ χεῖρες ἡμῶν
ἐψηλάφησαν, περὶ τοῦ λόγου τῆς ζωῆς —
καὶ ἡ ζωὴ ἐφανερώθη, καὶ ἑωράκαμεν καὶ μαρτυροῦμεν
καὶ ἀπαγγέλλομεν ὑμῖν τὴν ζωὴν τὴν αἰώνιον ἥτις ἦν
πρὸς τὸν πατέρα καὶ ἐφανερώθη ἡμῖν —
ὃ ἑωράκαμεν καὶ ἀκηκόαμεν ἀπαγγέλλομεν καὶ ὑμῖν,
ἵνα καὶ ὑμεῖς κοινωνίαν ἔχητε μεθ' ἡμῶν.
Nate.
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Re: Possessive Genitive
NateD26
Now I understand. You are speaking of the parenthesis in verse 2. Thanks.
You quoted:
GTM
Now I understand. You are speaking of the parenthesis in verse 2. Thanks.
You quoted:
So are you saying that it could be possessive Genitive?and even if the first genitive wasn't a part of the prep. phrase, it is not uncommon to use
as many possessive genitives as needed.
GTM
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Re: Possessive Genitive
as i said above, in this case, the first genitive τοῦ λόγου does not stand by itself but is a part of
a prepositional phrase περὶ τοῦ λόγου, whereas the second is possessive, as Darwin's "On the Origin of Species".
in my last reply I've used consecutive possessive genitives "the line of thought of the author" which is the same as
the author's line of thought.
a prepositional phrase περὶ τοῦ λόγου, whereas the second is possessive, as Darwin's "On the Origin of Species".
in my last reply I've used consecutive possessive genitives "the line of thought of the author" which is the same as
the author's line of thought.
Nate.
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Re: Possessive Genitive
NateD26
Thank you for your input.
GTM
Thank you for your input.
GTM
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Re: Possessive Genitive
jk0592 wrote:Out of context as it is, I would say it is genitive absolute.
I am not sure that I have understood yoyur point... As far as I know, this construction appears only with participles, or, rarely, with the adjectives "ἑκών, ἄκων".
Dives qui sapiens est...